Reply With QuoteHey Jeff. I understood your answer. I was just asking you how confident you might be whether or not Hall would eventually be the 90-110 player Stamkos is.
What do you think?
I was making a point for Stamkos, not Hall. When finally given an opportunity Stamkos produced. I said to do the deal regardless of if you're giving Kane or Hall
Last edited by jeffl97; May 6, 2011 at 1:43 AM.
The Ultimate Fantasy Hockey League. (Keep 17)
3C 3LW 3RW 6D 2G 6BE.
G,A,+-,PIM,PPP,SHP,GWG,SOG,FW,HIT; GS,W,L,GAA,SA,SV, SV%,SO
(C) Kopitar, Kuznetsov, O'Reilly, Karlsson, Roslovic, Zacha
(LW) Ovechkin, Forseberg, Bertuzzi(RW),
(RW) Rantanen, Bratt(LW), Radulov
(D) Josi, Burns, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Heiskanen, Dunn, Boqvist
(G) Gibson, Quick, Hart, Petersen
(IR) Domi
10 Person Farm: (<200GP for F, <100GP for G)
(C) Zegras(LW), Bourque
(LW) Kaliyev(RW)
(RW) Glass(C), Raymond(LW)
(D) Power
(G) Ingram, Knight, Levi, Primeau
Hey Jeff. I understood your answer. I was just asking you how confident you might be whether or not Hall would eventually be the 90-110 player Stamkos is.
What do you think?
Funny you mention it, I was actually thinking of recommending a goalie upgrade over going after Stamkos. Hard to argue going after him though. I don't have a lot of faith in Atlanta, which then drags down my opinion of Pavs as well.Originally Posted by hockeypoolgeek
10 Team Yahoo H2H - Keep 5 - G,A,+/-,PPP,PIMS,HITS SOG,GWG/W,GAA,SV%,SO
C: Tavares, Pavelski, Fabbri, Matthews, Rakell,
LW: Landeskog, Sedin, Perron
RW: Kucherov, Oshie, Radulov, Backes
D: Subban, Petry, Gostisbehere, Green, Yandle, Werenski
G: Price, Talbot
Canadian Dad Blog - http://canadiandad.com
Hey Geek.
Points and rosters are...
Rosters- 4C, 3LW, 3RW, 2W, 4D, 2G, 7BN, 3IR
Scoring Categories- Skaters- G, A, Pts, +/-, PIM, PPP, GWG, SOG
Goalies- W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
Agree on Pavs...think there is potential, but not completely sold. I picked him up later in the draft. Out of my goalies, he's the one I'm most comfortable giving up. Although Bob makes me a bit nervous. But I have to guaranteed number 1 starters.
Not that confident. You act as though having St. Louis is a downside for Stamkos. Maybe he's helping him develop and adds 10pts or so. But why is that a downside? That only helps his case (imo). Who does Hall have? No one really. They both can produce on their own. Stamkos has already shown his talent, consistency is something that comes with more experience. With 3 years under his belt and no injury concerns and on a playoff team compared to hall's 1 year, already injured, on the worst team in the league, the safe bet it Stamkos. No one can predict 3 years from now, but considering Stamkos has back to back 90 point seasons and is only just beginning to develop I gotta go with him.
The Ultimate Fantasy Hockey League. (Keep 17)
3C 3LW 3RW 6D 2G 6BE.
G,A,+-,PIM,PPP,SHP,GWG,SOG,FW,HIT; GS,W,L,GAA,SA,SV, SV%,SO
(C) Kopitar, Kuznetsov, O'Reilly, Karlsson, Roslovic, Zacha
(LW) Ovechkin, Forseberg, Bertuzzi(RW),
(RW) Rantanen, Bratt(LW), Radulov
(D) Josi, Burns, Pietrangelo, Karlsson, Heiskanen, Dunn, Boqvist
(G) Gibson, Quick, Hart, Petersen
(IR) Domi
10 Person Farm: (<200GP for F, <100GP for G)
(C) Zegras(LW), Bourque
(LW) Kaliyev(RW)
(RW) Glass(C), Raymond(LW)
(D) Power
(G) Ingram, Knight, Levi, Primeau
I think Niemi's the best you've got, followed by Backstrom, who's not getting any younger and his team doesn't seem to be getting any better. Bobs would make me nervous too, especially with Philly's playoff showing and history with goaltenders. If they go out and acquire a legit starter, you can kiss Bobs good bye.
In fact, if your team isn't ready to win, I would shop Backstrom and see what offers come in as well.
10 Team Yahoo H2H - Keep 5 - G,A,+/-,PPP,PIMS,HITS SOG,GWG/W,GAA,SV%,SO
C: Tavares, Pavelski, Fabbri, Matthews, Rakell,
LW: Landeskog, Sedin, Perron
RW: Kucherov, Oshie, Radulov, Backes
D: Subban, Petry, Gostisbehere, Green, Yandle, Werenski
G: Price, Talbot
Canadian Dad Blog - http://canadiandad.com
Not acting as if St. Louis is a negative. The negative is that he's 35 years old. How many years does he have left? Is Stamkos the type of player who needs a setup guy, like Hull, Heatley, Iginla, Kessel? Or can he generate chances on his own? I think Hall can create his own chances. I've seen a lot of him this year. I have not seen as much of Stamkos since I live west.
As far as talent, Hall has Eberle, Paarvi-Svenson, Hemsky, Gagne, and probably Nuggent Hopkins, the next number one overall pick. That's a lot of talent...talent that is not close to retirement. Edmonton is going to be scary good. I just don't think there's any way around it.
I've done the reasearch on Stamkos. He's has great work ethic, skates well, etc. Just unsure how many points come from St. Louis and if there will be a drop.
Backstrom contract ends next year (I think). I see him like a Vokoun...good goalie looking for a contended. Lines up with my 2-3 year window with Turris, Seguin, Hall, Kane, Voracek, Taveres, Malkin (only 24 now). Niemi is signed for 4 years. Bob does have upside. Play him with a veteran for a year or two until he's ready.
I'm sure Bobs has plenty of upside, you just don't want to bank on him being a starter for next year. The goaltending situation is so crowded right now, if he ends up a backup somewhere, he may never break out of that shadow.
I'm not even sure you need Stamkos with the Centers you have but if the question is him or Hall, I take Stamkos.
10 Team Yahoo H2H - Keep 5 - G,A,+/-,PPP,PIMS,HITS SOG,GWG/W,GAA,SV%,SO
C: Tavares, Pavelski, Fabbri, Matthews, Rakell,
LW: Landeskog, Sedin, Perron
RW: Kucherov, Oshie, Radulov, Backes
D: Subban, Petry, Gostisbehere, Green, Yandle, Werenski
G: Price, Talbot
Canadian Dad Blog - http://canadiandad.com
Last thing I forgot to ask... daily starts?
If so, I have to go against the general consensus. I would definitely not do this deal.
Rosters- 4C, 3LW, 3RW, 2W, 4D, 2G, 7BN, 3IR
Scoring Categories- Skaters- G, A, Pts, +/-, PIM, PPP, GWG, SOG
Goalies- W, GAA, SV, SV%, SO
You have 13 scoring categories. 5 of them are goalie categories. You have two starting goalie slots, accounting for 38% of your scoring. Simply put, you can't win this league without good goaltending.
12 team league. 30 NHL teams. That's 30 starters to go around... not every team can have 3. If you have daily starts then being able to rotate in an extra goalie (or two) is an enormous advantage. Huge. Massive. Gigantic. Other "large" adjectives.
You have 3.5 starting goaltenders (Bobs is only 0.5 right now, especially given his recent performance). If you deal Pavelec you go down to 2.5. That's too little. You want do be damn confident in your goaltending in this league.
Yes, Stamkos is a stud. Enstrom is steady, but he's a terrible option in this league's scoring setup. His totals in G, GWG, PIM, and SOG are pedestrian, maybe even a liability. Yes, 50 points is nice, but not if it hurts you elsewhere.
Hall will likely be a stud, and fill your scoring categories well. He'll have some growing pains, but he'll be a big star.
Please note: if this is a weekly starts league, this deal is more attractive. But giving up goaltending in a league that has daily roster changes, 2 goalie slots, and this scoring setup is a huge tactical mistake.
Once the GMs in this league realize the importance of goaltending, you'll be able to dangle a guy like Pavelec for proven 80-point players.
I don't like this deal for you because of Pavelec. Goaltending is just too important in this league to gamble on, and you're gambling a great deal if you send him packing.
Bingo HPG - I got off late from work to see this so you beat me to the punch. And further more with Malkin, Tavares, Seguin and Turris at C why the heck would you want to strip down your LW to acquire yet another C?
I wouldn't touch this deal. I am not arguing with anyone about player values here - this deal doesn't make sense according to your league and team structure.
Thanks guys. Leaning toward not doing the deal.
It is daily starts and there are guys with really bad goalie situations.
I like the fact that I'm deep in all positions right now and C is not as valuable. If Hall flops, I lose. If he comes close to Stamkos, I win. I may try offering him E Kane.
I wouldn't deal Kane in this setup either -- he'll be a monster in these scoring categories once he matures. Lots of G, SOG, GWG, and PIM. Yum.
I understand that Stamkos is tempting, and the value is definitely on his side, but the question to ask yourself when evaluating trades isn't "do I get better value out of this trade>", it's "does this trade make my team better?"
If you're dealing Pavelec or Hall/Kane and taking on Enstrom, the answer is no. C are easy to get. Good wingers and G are not.
I thought i'd already answered this one but apparently it was a "E.Kane for Stamkos" thread
what I wrote in regard to that was:
"Stamkos is better than Hall straight up and E.Kane in a multi-cat I would take over Hall in a heartbeat as E.Kane will be an 80 guy with 90+ upside and great peripherals where as Hall would have to hit 90+ consistently just to be of equal value. Hall for Stamkos is a better route in my opinion in a multi-cat setting, E.Kane for Stamkos in a points only format. Stamkos is the best guy in the deal though regardless of the setting so make that move"
...in a multi-cat E.Kane will easily be a top 10 option in the league for many years to come and even has the capacity to top Perry in that regard. Stamkos is a great add and should never go below 45G-85 points on any season with upside well into the 100-110 range and goal upside at around 60G tt even modestly above, get Stamkos for sure but do so for Hall in a multi-cat, not E.Kane and I see a bunch of others have echoed the same in that regard. Get Stamkos for sure, but do it for Hall in a multi-cat.
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