League Damaging Moves

[EichelTower]

I rarely post here but lurk a lot. Y'all are awesome.

Recently a trade was made between two GMs in my fantasy league that has been going for over two decades. It was a trade that gave me pause, and I hope that you can offer your opinion on this situation.

The GM in question is a former champion, smart, and a fun guy overall to have in the league (despite well more than his fair share of trade spamming).

The other GM is stuck in a rut and has been in the bottom of the league for years.

These GMs have done business frequently in the past. Former champion has acquired Jack Hughes from him as well as Lafrienere among others. Most of these deals favoured the former champ (especially the Jack Hughes one) but I never got that "weird gut" feeling that I have with these latest two trades.

Earlier this season the former champ traded Slavkovsky to this team in a rut and received Luke Hughes.

Fair enough so far... But then

A couple days ago at our deadline the champ dealt over Blackwood and Xhekaj to get Slavkovsky back.

This is the third 1st overall pick he has gotten from this stuck in a rut GM in the last couple years.

Again, former champ is not a bad guy but he has really decimated this other team over the last while.

Is this kind of thing that can destroy a league? Are we just spoiled in this league to not have seen anything this bad before?

Our league has had such a fair play attitude for the last few years that nobody really objects to trades anymore. I haven't objected to this one.

It just feels like one GM is hosing this down and out team over and over. At some point does someone say something? Would you?

[stevegamer]

What rules do you have in place, and does this deal violate any of them?

Have you approached the 2 GM's and found out what the thinking behind the deals were, specifically the second deal?

Have you thought about replacing the bottom feeder GM, or giving him help?

[metaldude26]

Is this kind of thing that can destroy a league? Are we just spoiled in this league to not have seen anything this bad before?

It absolutely can, especially if it's the same owner or few owners beating up on the same few owners. It creates a resentful cut-throat environment and typically results in more ganging up unless squashed or it forces you to put in a veto system, which will almost certainly get petty and force trades not to occur.

It just feels like one GM is hosing this down and out team over and over. At some point does someone say something? Would you?

This is where league management needs to come into play for a commissioner. It doesn't necessarily need to go public, but you need to talk to the two GMs, note the pattern of one GM taking advantage of the other, and note your concerns. I'd post the trade on the forums here (include all your league details, because there may be some reason this is more fair than it seems) to get a consensus on if it's a fair trade and give you some ammo to take into talks.

Strongly urge the GMs to reverse the trade in the offseason and consider taking a break from trading with one another.

You also need to question the GM who is taking the trade beatings about their motivation for the league. Not badly, but just get a sense of if they still care, and what their motives are for these trades. If you've got a GM that can stick around, then encourage them to in the future take 48 hours before dealing with the vulture GM above and shop the trade around to get a sense on fairness but also get a better deal.

[Belexus75]

yeah i think both trades are fine but sequence of events say otherwise...i would talk to commish and see if anything can be done...

[Bag Skate]

Any perennial bottom feeder should be replaced if he’s doing deals that keep him there year after year. Selfishly, I would takeover for him.

[This Guy]

I'm not high on Slavkovsky but agree that the bottom GM doesn't have a plan and will continue to be at the bottom. It sounds like they changed direction mid-season and it's a regular pattern for them. It's unfortunate that one GM is continually taking advantage of another. Some people have no qualms about improving their team even when it hurts or kills the league.

I had a hard time valuing players, and still do, which is why I run some through the forum. Another GM put me onto Dobber and the forum, and it's been a great resource. Does the bottom GM trade with other teams or just this GM?
I'd offer the forum as an unbiased reference before they complete trades, and for them to have a realistic competitive window and stick to it, not get distracted or impatient.

[senryu]

One aspect of this: have other owners also tried to get #1 OA pick-type players from the owner in the rut without success? If this is a pipeline that only exists for the one owner and no one else has similar deals considered, that is definitely a league killer. If everyone has the ability to loot this owner, then everyone is in the same boat. But if the rut owner won't respond to offers unless they come from the one owner, then the rest of the league has no incentive to compete. The Hughes/Lafreniere owner has its own farm team.

[butch]

If there's a group of 2-3 GMs that chat together about gm X taking advantage of gm Z over and over then there's probably enough support to have a healthy discussion on your message board/chat box. At least in the future, gm X will think twice before taking advantage of gm Z if he knows his trades are being monitored a little more closely than in the past.

if your the only gm bothered by the trades then you might be better off starting fresh in another league that has mechanisms in place to prevent bad trades from happening

[rtstr]

I think it's all relative. To me this trade could be easily justified. I am not high on Slaf for fantasy, i think he's barely a top 10 pick in most drafts. Some leagues it's impossible to acquire goalies so maybe this was his thinking?

Blackwood will likely have a new home soon, maybe even next year. He could be a starter on a good team. Maybe a stud, who knows. Goalie scoring is so hard to predict... nobody had Ullmark as the top guy. Nobody had Thompson as a top 5 guy (prior to injury). Nobody had Georgiev ahead of Shesterkin (!)

If the struggling GM is happy with the moves he's made, there's no reason to cry wolf just because he goes against the majority. He could still have the last laugh.

[Gretzky99Orr4]

Not collusion. Just cause someone gets the better of a deal doesn't make it a problem.

[finnys_fanatsy]

I think it's all relative. To me this trade could be easily justified. I am not high on Slaf for fantasy, i think he's barely a top 10 pick in most drafts. Some leagues it's impossible to acquire goalies so maybe this was his thinking?

Blackwood will likely have a new home soon, maybe even next year. He could be a starter on a good team. Maybe a stud, who knows. Goalie scoring is so hard to predict... nobody had Ullmark as the top guy. Nobody had Thompson as a top 5 guy (prior to injury). Nobody had Georgiev ahead of Shesterkin (!)

If the struggling GM is happy with the moves he's made, there's no reason to cry wolf just because he goes against the majority. He could still have the last laugh.

this...all trades look bad to outsiders...ive traded and traded for teh same guys multiple times in a season lol.

Salf isnt a high end talent IMO, so really the 1OA tag isn't a big deal here. i wouldn't call any of these trades League Damaging, unless it becomes a real pattern

[Stanley]

this...all trades look bad to outsiders...ive traded and traded for teh same guys multiple times in a season lol.

Salf isnt a high end talent IMO, so really the 1OA tag isn't a big deal here. i wouldn't call any of these trades League Damaging, unless it becomes a real pattern

Jack Hughes, yes. Slav and Laf, maybe, one day?

Hard to say without more details if any of these deals are rotten or not. More important is if one or a few GMs are perpetually in the basement and seem unable or unwilling to compete, the league might be better off replacing them or downsizing.

[kovalchuk17]

Unless you can prove outright collusion, there isnt really grounds to remove them from the league. Incompetence isnt collusion, some NHL Gms get routinely fleeced it is part of the gig haha. If they are paying their dues and playing the game, they can do whatever they want within the rules and reason

The best case scenario, assuming the weak manager is a lost cause, is for a large chunk/majority of the league to agree it isnt working out and to provide a replacement manager at the ready. The commissioner and/or a minority group of people isn't enough to make this determination as player value is subjective.

[Fighting_Emu]

I rarely post here but lurk a lot. Y'all are awesome.

Recently a trade was made between two GMs in my fantasy league that has been going for over two decades. It was a trade that gave me pause, and I hope that you can offer your opinion on this situation.

The GM in question is a former champion, smart, and a fun guy overall to have in the league (despite well more than his fair share of trade spamming).

The other GM is stuck in a rut and has been in the bottom of the league for years.

These GMs have done business frequently in the past. Former champion has acquired Jack Hughes from him as well as Lafrienere among others. Most of these deals favoured the former champ (especially the Jack Hughes one) but I never got that "weird gut" feeling that I have with these latest two trades.

Earlier this season the former champ traded Slavkovsky to this team in a rut and received Luke Hughes.

Fair enough so far... But then

A couple days ago at our deadline the champ dealt over Blackwood and Xhekaj to get Slavkovsky back.

This is the third 1st overall pick he has gotten from this stuck in a rut GM in the last couple years.

Again, former champ is not a bad guy but he has really decimated this other team over the last while.

Is this kind of thing that can destroy a league? Are we just spoiled in this league to not have seen anything this bad before?

Our league has had such a fair play attitude for the last few years that nobody really objects to trades anymore. I haven't objected to this one.

It just feels like one GM is hosing this down and out team over and over. At some point does someone say something? Would you?

So you felt so bad for this poor gm that you thought you'd cheer him up by pressuring him into a brutal trade for Evander Kane? Sounds legit...

If you're worried about league damaging moves here's what you do:

A) Stop whinging
B) Put on your big boy pants and
C) (and this ones key) Stop sending so goddamn many out!!

[junyab]

I don't think Slaf for Blackwood/Jackeye is a bad trade if the guy's high on Blackwood and see the multicat stuff Jackeye will become.

And you never gave details on who he gave up for Jack Hughes or Laffy, so we don't have enough evidence for a proper assessment.