What Makes Sean Couturier the Most Wanted Flyer?

[Big Ev]

Im sorry but guys who cant skate dont make the NHL. Weak arguement on your part when it comes to you disdain for Couturier.

Not a weak argument at all, that's why he didn't go in the Top 5.

Don't be foolish, when somebody says he "can't skate", it doesn't literally mean he can't skate up and down the ice. He is sluggish and doesn't have the high offensive IQ or the hands to make up for it at this time. This isn't like the John Tavares criticism's.

If you think he can skate well, then you don't know what you're talking about.

[Axeman33]

I didn't mean it to say he literally can't skate but a guy who is a weak skater for the NHL level normally doesn't stick around the NHL level. There are plenty of guys who have high offensive abilities with poor skating habits in the AHL or Europe. That's why they aren't in the NHL. His skating isn't the issue, nor is his hands. Its the situation he is in when it comes to Philly. He is a 3rd line player there who is relied on to shut down the opponents top lines and he also is mainly used to kill penalties.

Put him on a team like Vancouver who would use him in a 2nd line role and give him some decent PP time and watch the difference in his offensive numbers.

His skating isn't the problem when it comes to Couturier; it's the situations that Philly rolls him into that holds him back from making that next step offensively.

Haven't we had this dance before? LOL!

[Big Ev]

I didn't mean it to say he literally can't skate but a guy who is a weak skater for the NHL level normally doesn't stick around the NHL level. There are plenty of guys who have high offensive abilities with poor skating habits in the AHL or Europe. That's why they aren't in the NHL. His skating isn't the issue, nor is his hands. Its the situation he is in when it comes to Philly. He is a 3rd line player there who is relied on to shut down the opponents top lines and he also is mainly used to kill penalties.

Put him on a team like Vancouver who would use him in a 2nd line role and give him some decent PP time and watch the difference in his offensive numbers.

His skating isn't the problem when it comes to Couturier; it's the situations that Philly rolls him into that holds him back from making that next step offensively.

Haven't we had this dance before? LOL!

Yes it is the issue if you actually watch him play. He is not an offensive guy nor will he ever be. If he was he wouldn't be used in the role he is in.

This is nothing but blind hope. Kind like how Rick Nash was supposes to dominate after leaving Columbus.

I've been right for years and I'll continue to be right.

[Big Ev]

Couturier is Benoit Pouliot but good defensively

[ASquared]

Big Ev,

You do realize Couturier is only 21-years-old, right? It's foolish to say he'll never develop scoring into his game when he's already netted 13 goals in 2 of the 3 seasons he's played. Besides, Craig Berube wants a "defense first" mentality out of Couturier, which can be contributed to his lower offensive numbers. Many are already calling him thee best penalty killer in the entire league. I think you're really short-changing this kid.

[Axeman33]

Big Ev,

You do realize Couturier is only 21-years-old, right? It's foolish to say he'll never develop scoring into his game when he's already netted 13 goals in 2 of the 3 seasons he's played. Besides, Craig Berube wants a "defense first" mentality out of Couturier, which can be contributed to his lower offensive numbers. Many are already calling him thee best penalty killer in the entire league. I think you're really short-changing this kid.

ASquared, you are wasting your key strokes if you think you can change Ev's perspective on Couturier. In his eyes, the only way Couturier becomes a quality NHL scorer is if Philly trades him to Ottawa.

[Big Ev]

Big Ev,

You do realize Couturier is only 21-years-old, right? It's foolish to say he'll never develop scoring into his game when he's already netted 13 goals in 2 of the 3 seasons he's played. Besides, Craig Berube wants a "defense first" mentality out of Couturier, which can be contributed to his lower offensive numbers. Many are already calling him thee best penalty killer in the entire league. I think you're really short-changing this kid.

actually berube increased his offensive minutes when he was hired, and couturier faded big time. It's not foolish to suggest that, it's actually foolish just to say his offence will come just because he scored in junior. Not all prospects just increase their scoring every year and get better every single year.

Nobody is calling him the best penalty killer in the league either. He's a good defensive forward but not one of the best yet.

what is the point of these homer hockey writer threads? Just blind homerism. you already had a post like this before.

[Big Ev]

ASquared, you are wasting your key strokes if you think you can change Ev's perspective on Couturier. In his eyes, the only way Couturier becomes a quality NHL scorer is if Philly trades him to Ottawa.

I wouldn't want him on ottawa.

[ASquared]

actually berube increased his offensive minutes when he was hired, and couturier faded big time. It's not foolish to suggest that, it's actually foolish just to say his offence will come just because he scored in junior. Not all prospects just increase their scoring every year and get better every single year.

Nobody is calling him the best penalty killer in the league either. He's a good defensive forward but not one of the best yet.

what is the point of these homer hockey writer threads? Just blind homerism. you already had a post like this before.

It's funny you say "nobody" is calling him the best penalty killer in the league. Here's one source that not only says just that, but ranks him ahead of Kesler in that department, and rightly so... http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/402290

As far as adding scoring goes, you're right. It's not a forgone conclusion anyone will increase their production based on what they did previously at a lower level. It'll all depend on how hard he works at it, and who he's paired with and on which line. Remember, for the better part of his short career, he's been paired with the worst players on the team. You think that could have a little something to do with it?

And although there was already a piece that featured Couturier, this one is different in that it focuses on his value throughout the rest of the league. Similar? I guess. But still a conversation, nonetheless, no?

[Big Ev]

Only advanced stats lovers like Thomas Drance would call him the best penalty killer. That article was posted in January by the way, and said " this season", not overall. Patrice bergeron isn't even on the list and he's a better Pker without a doubt.

Until somebody important says it, it's irrelevant.

Regardless, I'm not debating defensive ability here.

[ASquared]

Only advanced stats lovers like Thomas Drance would call him the best penalty killer. That article was posted in January by the way, and said " this season", not overall. Patrice bergeron isn't even on the list and he's a better Pker without a doubt.

Until somebody important says it, it's irrelevant.

Regardless, I'm not debating defensive ability here.

I think you could make a case for Bergeron being the best player in the league, so I'm not going to say he doesn't deserve to be on the list.

It makes sense to consider Couturier the best on the PK, though. The Flyers were the most penalized team in the league, and even posted the best PK percentage in the playoffs.

I know you're not debating his skill in that department. It was just the direction the conversation was going I guess.

[Atomic Wedgy]

If Hextall trades Couturier for Kesler, I'll be very surprised. Couturier had mono during his draft year which is why he fell to 8th overall. His game didn't progress as much as he should have in his last year of Junior as a result of him recovering from mono. I dont expect him to be a point per game player every year, but he will flirt with it often when he hits his stride. He scored 39 points this past year making $1.75 million as a 21 year old for the next two years. Kesler scored 43 points and he is the finished product making 5 million over the next two years.

Explain to me the upside of trading Couturier for Kesler again?

[Big Ev]

If Hextall trades Couturier for Kesler, I'll be very surprised. Couturier had mono during his draft year which is why he fell to 8th overall. His game didn't progress as much as he should have in his last year of Junior as a result of him recovering from mono. I dont expect him to be a point per game player every year, but he will flirt with it often when he hits his stride. He scored 39 points this past year making $1.75 million as a 21 year old for the next two years. Kesler scored 43 points and he is the finished product making 5 million over the next two years.

Explain to me the upside of trading Couturier for Kesler again?

Everyone knew about the mono. That is not why he dropped a bit.

Getting a much better offensive player, much grittier guy, who is under 30, for a team who likes to "win now".

[Atomic Wedgy]

Much better offensively? I dont see that.

Kesler 2011-2012 - 49 points
Kesler 2012-2013 - he only played 17 games
Kesler 2013-2014 - 43 points

Couturier 2011-2012 - 27 points as a rookie
Couturier 2012-2013 - almost point per game in the AHL during the lockout. did not have a good sophomore NHL season - 15 points in 46 games.
Couturier 2013-2014 - 39 points.

So, I dont see the separation in their offensive talents. I think that Couturier is just about as good as Kesler is right now and he is only 21. It makes no sense to trade a way Couturier only to take on Kesler's inflated salary. I'll be fairly pissed off if it happens, which I dont think it will. Hextall expressed a desire to build from growing their young players not by trading them. I agree with that approach. You cannot braise short ribs in 30 minutes.

[Big Ev]

So are we just gonna sweep his 41 goal, 73 point season three years ago under the rug? Or his 75 point season before that?

Only looking at point totals doesn't tell you how good a guy is offensively. The Canucks have been a mess lately. Put Kesler back on Philly over the last couple of years and he puts up 65-70 points easily.

The only reason you don't make the trade is age, and that's a great argument as to why the trade would never happen. The age gap is big. But to suggest Couturier is as good as he is offensively is ridiculous and it is a very biased opinion. Canucks want a kings ransom for him, not a third line centre.