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Thread: Vancouver Canucks

  1. #1291
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocMcPuffin View Post
    Eddie Lack made a great point. "He paid all the 3rd and 4th liners money but don’t want to pay your MVP starting goalie? Makes sense..."
    He put himself in this position by paying all that $$ to the third and fourth line guys. It’s not that he doesn’t WANT to pay Markstrom - it’s that he can’t.
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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Quote Originally Posted by tweetdrivr View Post
    He put himself in this position by paying all that $$ to the third and fourth line guys. It’s not that he doesn’t WANT to pay Markstrom - it’s that he can’t.
    I'll be the first to admit that I'd be a terrible GM, and managing a cap would be so far out of my realm, but there's always options. It's a matter of him finding the best one. If I am a GM, even I know I don't want to have to go to my boss saying I "can't" lock up our MVP and arguably one of best goalies this season and last. If Marky does end up walking away, I really do believe Benning is on the chopping block.
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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Quote Originally Posted by tweetdrivr View Post
    He put himself in this position by paying all that $$ to the third and fourth line guys. It’s not that he doesn’t WANT to pay Markstrom - it’s that he can’t.
    Plus goalies are not like a #1 C or a top dman. Goalies are always available, they're inconsistent, and the dropoff between finding replacements is not that that significant. And goalies don't have a long shelf life. In 4 years from now, how many of the top 10 goalies will be starters right now? Obviously, Markstrom is better than Demko but the Canucks unfortunately do not have many options for improving their team other than using 4-5 M in savings from Markstrom on defense and depth. You're not seriously contending with Markstrom next season anyways and you're going to need cap space for Petersson and Hughes.

    Now, if you can trade Demko for either dman help. depth, or cap relief AND sign Markstrom for 5.5 or so for 4 years then you're on to something. And the NMC would be a deal-breaker unless he is giving a major hometown discount.
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  4. #1294
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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    Well first, these teams aren't playing fantasy hockey. That means their values doesn't evaporate once they hit 30, especially goalies, who still can play at a very high level for years.

    And yes, I'm well aware of overpaying for past production isn't smart, if you don't think they'll keep up the rate of production. I don't think that's the case here for Markstrom. I think he's still got years of high level production in front of him.

    I'm not saying they should give him an eight year deal, but a similar contact to what Lehner us getting is an excellent investment for Vancouver.

    Markstrom is in his prime years now and has a few more ahead of him. Goalies prime years are further to the right compared to skaters. You can definitely find examples of goalies not living up to their contracts but the two examples you gave really aren't great ones. Both those teams are currently rebuilding and if you've got a mediocre team in front of a goalie, if course their numbers are going to suffer. Vancouver is on the way up for what will be the main years of Markstroms new deal, not on the way down.
    Im not thinking fantasy GM, and Markstrom does have less miles on him, and if they think they can win in the next two years then go for it, I just dont see it. Also the examples I gave are great in my opinion. Those teams “rewarded” their players for winning cups and that is exactly why they are in a “rebuild” aka cant afford to build a real team because we spent all our money on 4 players. Markstrom hasnt delivered a cup and yet we want to pay him as though he has. No, bad idea.

    As others have mentioned, it isnt as much that I dont want to to see him get paid, more that they arent in a position to. But hey, we can dig a deeper hole, or start to fill it in by paying a reasonable amount for a reasonable term.

    If they do sign him it will come with a NMC of some kind, that is pretty much accepted by local sports media.

    The Markstrom/Demko/???? situation is interesting to discuss because there isnt a right answer, the outcome should be equally debatable.

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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    Plus goalies are not like a #1 C or a top dman. Goalies are always available, they're inconsistent, and the dropoff between finding replacements is not that that significant. And goalies don't have a long shelf life. In 4 years from now, how many of the top 10 goalies will be starters right now? Obviously, Markstrom is better than Demko but the Canucks unfortunately do not have many options for improving their team other than using 4-5 M in savings from Markstrom on defense and depth. You're not seriously contending with Markstrom next season anyways and you're going to need cap space for Petersson and Hughes.

    Now, if you can trade Demko for either dman help. depth, or cap relief AND sign Markstrom for 5.5 or so for 4 years then you're on to something. And the NMC would be a deal-breaker unless he is giving a major hometown discount.
    Yeah pretty much agree with all this. I'm also of the same mindset that for the most part, goalies are interchangeable. The problem for the Canucks is that this is usually under the premise that a team has a good defensive core and a good defensive structure to make that work, and the Canucks don't have that, like, at all lol.
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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Benning saved his offseason with the Schmidt deal. Not sure if it was dumb luck or not, but he didn't overpay anyone and actually improved the defense (assuming they can add another body).
    So... what's next. If I'm Benning:

    - Get on the phone with Arizona, Ottawa and Detroit and remind them that Eriksson's cap hit is higher than what they need to actually pay him. Ottawa in particular might love this. Detroit could add now, deal him next year at the deadline perhaps. Even if it takes adding a pick/prospect, I think clearing 6 million is worth it. Gotta think these teams are open to the idea.

    - Take a flyer on some upside wingers for NHL minimum or close. I've been saying Granlund would be a really solid add (but he might cost a bit yet). But what about Jeremy Bracco? Run him alongside Horvat and Pearson/Miller and I think you've got a guy that could have a nice year. Horvat can hide what seems to be his defensive liabilities perhaps. In a top-six role, I think he's a low-risk, high reward guy. Other options might include Duclair or Ho-Sang? Heck, grab a couple and have them battle.

    - Ideally, he adds another blueliner. And a RHD one would be ideal. But everyone wants those. Vatanen seems logical. I'm guessing he still gets a decent paycheck, but worth trying for. I don't hate the idea of having Rathbone, Juolevi, and Rafferty (and maybe Woo) competing for minutes. With no AHL season, I think having these guys getting minutes is even more important (assuming they aren't going overseas). Even if they cycle in and out of the lineup. Schmidt makes this a lot more feasible. Top four of Hughes, Schmidt, Edler, and Myers ain't bad at all. But one has to assume Edler misses 10-20 games, so... Daley is another vet option? Bowey as reclamation project?

    I kinda hope the NHL does something similar to MLB in letting teams carry a few extra bodies to account for no AHL season, college uncertainty, etc.
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    I agree with pretty much all of your points. Much like you, I am holding out hope that at least one of the young guys can step up and play a decent role for this team.

    What was so disappointing is the report that came out that Vancouver offered Barrie a one-year deal north of $5M, yet let Stecher walk for $1.7. Honestly, I know Stecher is undersized but for a third pairing guy he gets the job done. Really disappointing.
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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Quote Originally Posted by STONE. View Post
    Benning saved his offseason with the Schmidt deal. Not sure if it was dumb luck or not, but he didn't overpay anyone and actually improved the defense (assuming they can add another body).
    So... what's next. If I'm Benning:

    - Get on the phone with Arizona, Ottawa and Detroit and remind them that Eriksson's cap hit is higher than what they need to actually pay him. Ottawa in particular might love this. Detroit could add now, deal him next year at the deadline perhaps. Even if it takes adding a pick/prospect, I think clearing 6 million is worth it. Gotta think these teams are open to the idea.

    - Take a flyer on some upside wingers for NHL minimum or close. I've been saying Granlund would be a really solid add (but he might cost a bit yet). But what about Jeremy Bracco? Run him alongside Horvat and Pearson/Miller and I think you've got a guy that could have a nice year. Horvat can hide what seems to be his defensive liabilities perhaps. In a top-six role, I think he's a low-risk, high reward guy. Other options might include Duclair or Ho-Sang? Heck, grab a couple and have them battle.

    - Ideally, he adds another blueliner. And a RHD one would be ideal. But everyone wants those. Vatanen seems logical. I'm guessing he still gets a decent paycheck, but worth trying for. I don't hate the idea of having Rathbone, Juolevi, and Rafferty (and maybe Woo) competing for minutes. With no AHL season, I think having these guys getting minutes is even more important (assuming they aren't going overseas). Even if they cycle in and out of the lineup. Schmidt makes this a lot more feasible. Top four of Hughes, Schmidt, Edler, and Myers ain't bad at all. But one has to assume Edler misses 10-20 games, so... Daley is another vet option? Bowey as reclamation project?

    I kinda hope the NHL does something similar to MLB in letting teams carry a few extra bodies to account for no AHL season, college uncertainty, etc.
    I'm gonna chalk up the Schmidt deal as dumb luck. Finally after years of goof ups during free agency the blind squirrel finds a nut.

    Agree they need, one more D and a top 6. Granlund would be great but he should be a centre, had his best years as one. The D man just needs to be a decent 3-4-5. And yeah Id love for them to take a flyer on a Duclair type of guy, someone who just needs to find the right fit.

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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Granlund didn't have his best years as a C... he played RW in Minny.

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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Virtanen 2.5M .. was on pace for 21- 21 - 42 , 180 shots , 130 hits playing 13mins a game.

    if we wash his 1st season because he was rushed , then next season will be his 4th yr breakout and could possibly be a

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    I posted my thoughts on Virtanen in his signing thread... but I'll vet here as well.

    He's the most frustrating player in that locker room. If he could remove head from @ss and commit he would be a 30-30+ guy that could just dominate the opposition. That speed. That potential physicality. Lots of hits, but lots of small hits.

    I think if we go back 5,10,15 pages of this thread we'll find my next comment. He's the key to this team taking that next step. The good Virtanen on a regular bases gives that top six a serious weapon.
    He lacks desire.

    Give him 20 shifts he has 2 really good ones, one that makes you jump out of your seat and fall in love. - 12 where you never notice he's on the ice and 5 that explain why he gets scratched and continually drops down the line up.

    --
    It's a good thing they didn't sign Bracco. he's a soft perimeter player who has zero commitment to defense. There's a reason he never got in a game for the Leafs.. and they're bad at team D.

    Other teams have been able to move as bad or worse salary than Eriksson. I think this is more an example of Bennings ineptitude as a GM than other teams willingness to take him on. How many times have we heard 'no one would give us a pick or there's no market only to have 3-5 examples of similar or worse deals surround his excuses across the league.
    --
    This team is no more than a bubble team until Eriksson, Beagle, Sutter are off the books. You can't run with that much dead cap and be a contender. The league is just too tight. The best chance to get rid of Eriksson is going to be - to do what Vegas did - in a deal with Seattle - take the final year of his contract and we'll leave Player X available or send you Y with him.

    Pettersson will be due his contract in Eriksson's final year. It makes too much sense not to do it. Benning & Francis should already be discussing who to include in shipping Loui.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    I posted my thoughts on Virtanen in his signing thread... but I'll vet here as well.

    He's the most frustrating player in that locker room. If he could remove head from @ss and commit he would be a 30-30+ guy that could just dominate the opposition. That speed. That potential physicality. Lots of hits, but lots of small hits.

    I think if we go back 5,10,15 pages of this thread we'll find my next comment. He's the key to this team taking that next step. The good Virtanen on a regular bases gives that top six a serious weapon.
    He lacks desire.

    Give him 20 shifts he has 2 really good ones, one that makes you jump out of your seat and fall in love. - 12 where you never notice he's on the ice and 5 that explain why he gets scratched and continually drops down the line up.
    I hear you. Look what the Habs committed to Anderson - that's exactly what they hope they are getting. Anderson does seem to have the fire. Virtanen could be the same thing. The ball is squarely in his court to step up and show what he can be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweetdrivr View Post
    I hear you. Look what the Habs committed to Anderson - that's exactly what they hope they are getting. Anderson does seem to have the fire. Virtanen could be the same thing. The ball is squarely in his court to step up and show what he can be.
    Right?! he's had shifts where you step back and say 'Holy Shit he's '02/'03 Bertuzzi' Then next shift he steps out and you say 'Holy Shit scratch him for Eriksson next game'
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    Default Re: Vancouver Canucks

    Nice - Hamonic on PTO. This will be a good addition - better depth - cheaper Tanev replacement. i think the defence should be much better this season - lets hope anyway, might need it with Marky gone.
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    Should be a nice fit for sure.
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