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Thread: Toronto Maple Leafs

  1. #3541
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    I'm pretty sure Babcock is safe


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  2. #3542
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    I think Babs is a great coach and I don't think he should be fired. Maybe some adjustments to his style but really, I think most of the blame falls on Dubas. Their D core is not that strong and it doesn't really matter how many weapons you have up front, if you can't rely on your defense, you're going to lose. I honestly believe they're close to being a solid contender a Cup, just need a couple of more pieces.
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  3. #3543
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike's Lemons View Post
    I think Babs is a great coach and I don't think he should be fired. Maybe some adjustments to his style but really, I think most of the blame falls on Dubas. Their D core is not that strong and it doesn't really matter how many weapons you have up front, if you can't rely on your defense, you're going to lose. I honestly believe they're close to being a solid contender a Cup, just need a couple of more pieces.
    It's hard to blame Dubas when he's been GM for one year. He brought in Tavares (any GM would have made that move) and later brought in Muzzin, so he definitely tried to fix what was an issue he inherited.

    This really goes back to how difficult it is to build a contender. The Leafs have A LOT of forwards, and their D is, well, not so good. They just had more hits developing forwards than defensemen. In the end guys like Zaitsev, Gardiner, Ozhiganov, etc didn't pan out as well as they hoped. Their roster is incomplete and with the salary cap being a thing I don't know if it will ever be complete. The contenders that win make it work in spite of their flaws.


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  4. #3544
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Defense wins championships. Period.

    Do the Leafs have the D they need to win? Not even close.

    Do they keep signing forwards to $10 million contracts? Looks like it.

    This is your problem. Ultimately it is the William Nylander contract that will prevent the Leafs from being the team they need to be. You cannot sign Marner, get the D's you need and keep Nylander. Nylander was the lowest prioirity of the three and yet hes the one who gets ridiculously overpaid. This is a flawed build that reminds me of the Soilers quite a bit.

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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    No one wants to comment on how the Leafs will have a failed off-season if they bring back the assistants? Or whoever is responsible with the PK/PP units?

    I'd be happy bringing the exact same team, but different coaches manning the PP. It was stale, stagnant, predictable, and really only seemed to roll when they were able to get the cross ice passing going and once that's removed, they had nothing.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  6. #3546
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Glatt View Post
    Defense wins championships. Period.
    Justin Schultz
    Trevor Daley
    Ian Cole
    Brian Dumoulin
    Olli Maatta
    Ron Hainsey


    Period

  7. #3547
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Schultz had a career year, Daley was still pretty decent back then, Hainsey was still good (still is), Cole is still a very good D, his addition to COL this year was a big reason for their improvement. Dumoulin was +31 last year, which would have led the Leafs. The Leafs top 4 of Rielly, Gardiner, Muzzin and Hainsey doesnt look bad on paper, dont know what the problem there is. I am sure someone has a theory.
    That D corps is, defensively speaking, way better than the Leafs is. So I am not sure what you are trying to say here.

  8. #3548
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    I think the rambling points are fair, even if maybe a little condescending. e.g. It certainly isn't "silly" to suggest Babcock should be fired. They very clearly regressed this season, so that's not a good sign. At the very least, their progress has stagnated.

    However, in fairness to Babcock, deployment mistakes aside for a second, anyone who watched Game 7 should be able to acknowledge that Toronto carried the play more often than not.
    I'd say they win that game if not for that first goal which was absolutely awful. The 3-1 goal was pretty bad too.
    Some might say Andersen was the biggest reason they made it to game 7... ok, maybe, but when you crap the bed, are you thinking happily about all those other nights that you didn't? Probably not.

    Long story short, I could make a strong case for and against Babcock. Neither side is silly to suggest he should stay or go.

  9. #3549
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Glatt View Post
    Defense wins championships. Period.

    Do the Leafs have the D they need to win? Not even close.

    Do they keep signing forwards to $10 million contracts? Looks like it.

    This is your problem. Ultimately it is the William Nylander contract that will prevent the Leafs from being the team they need to be. You cannot sign Marner, get the D's you need and keep Nylander. Nylander was the lowest prioirity of the three and yet hes the one who gets ridiculously overpaid. This is a flawed build that reminds me of the Soilers quite a bit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    Justin Schultz
    Trevor Daley
    Ian Cole
    Brian Dumoulin
    Olli Maatta
    Ron Hainsey


    Period
    I was thinking the same thing Guru.

    Defence as a team plan/structure/commitment can make up for the lack among individual pieces. Of course a stud RHD who can play half the game would be a welcome addition to any team but a coach has to make due with what he's given and get the players to buy in to that team plan.

    I don't know that Babs should be canned but sometimes he just seems too stubborn and arrogant to adapt. I've always believed he gets too much leeway for his Olympic medals considering those teams could hardly be any more stacked.
    10 team full keeper roto 4C/LW/RW,6D,2G

    G,A,P,+/-,PIM,SOG,GWG,PPP,SHP,Hit,Blk,FOW
    W,GAA,SV,SV%,SHO

    C-Aho,Couturier,Matthews,O'Reilly
    LW-Ehlers,Giroux,Panarin,Rust
    RW-Kucherov,Palmieri,Pastrnak,Wilson
    D-Burns,Carlson,Gudas,Josi,Nurse,Pietrangelo
    G-Fleury,F.Andersen,Markstrom
    BN-Zacha

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  10. #3550
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeymanG23 View Post
    I was thinking the same thing Guru.

    Defence as a team plan/structure/commitment can make up for the lack among individual pieces. Of course a stud RHD who can play half the game would be a welcome addition to any team but a coach has to make due with what he's given and get the players to buy in to that team plan.

    I don't know that Babs should be canned but sometimes he just seems too stubborn and arrogant to adapt. I've always believed he gets too much leeway for his Olympic medals considering those teams could hardly be any more stacked.


    The biggest part of those Olympic teams was that USA, Russia, and Sweden were all just as stacked. I think the biggest part of Babcock is he is able to get people to jump when he says jump. But that era of player who just willingly does it, is going away. Now players wanna know why they do things and what not. Babcock with young talented players has always been his issues.

    The thing is, if I'm Dubas, I'm telling Babcock he better learn how to modernize his approach or else.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  11. #3551
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    I think the rambling points are fair, even if maybe a little condescending. e.g. It certainly isn't "silly" to suggest Babcock should be fired. They very clearly regressed this season, so that's not a good sign. At the very least, their progress has stagnated.

    However, in fairness to Babcock, deployment mistakes aside for a second, anyone who watched Game 7 should be able to acknowledge that Toronto carried the play more often than not.
    I'd say they win that game if not for that first goal which was absolutely awful. The 3-1 goal was pretty bad too.
    Some might say Andersen was the biggest reason they made it to game 7... ok, maybe, but when you crap the bed, are you thinking happily about all those other nights that you didn't? Probably not.

    Long story short, I could make a strong case for and against Babcock. Neither side is silly to suggest he should stay or go.
    I don't know that they regressed or stagnated. Sure they had 3 less wins (not a huge number) but overall they were playing against a much improved division this year. They also lost a close Game 7 in a series that was ultimately a coin flip. I watched all of Game 7 and I thought both teams did their fair share of controlling the play. Yes that first goal was brutal but overall it was a close game that either team could have came out on top.

    Ultimately, I agree with Dobber's line that Game 7 was being played for the Stanley Cup, because whichever team won has a golden opportunity and should be looked at as the frontrunner going forward in these playoffs.

    Most fanbases tend to be more critical of their team/coaching than outsiders do. But damn I don't think there's very many other franchises out there that wouldn't jump at the opportunity to have Babcok coach their team. I think Toronto should keep him. With or without Babs though, I think Toronto is going to be hungrier and going to have a great shot at Lord Stanley next year.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    [/B]
    But that era of player who just willingly does it, is going away. Now players wanna know why they do things and what not.
    As a relatively young boss, I feel Babcock's pain on this. I try to be understanding of my younger guys and explain why whenever I'm giving instructions on how to do things. But there's times when blind obedience (like high stakes/high pressure environments) has to happen to be successful. Explanations can always be given later. Of course, if managed properly, and the requirement for those "jump when I say jump" moments is the exception rather than the standard, you can get buy-in from the younger guys once they've learned to trust you. Given the regular season success, I'm sure that Babcock must have grown as a coach and is modernizing his ways. I think that both he and the team have a golden opportunity to learn from this loss and come back next year and apply those lessons.
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  12. #3552
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    [/B]
    The biggest part of those Olympic teams was that USA, Russia, and Sweden were all just as stacked. I think the biggest part of Babcock is he is able to get people to jump when he says jump. But that era of player who just willingly does it, is going away. Now players wanna know why they do things and what not. Babcock with young talented players has always been his issues.

    The thing is, if I'm Dubas, I'm telling Babcock he better learn how to modernize his approach or else.
    I agree that Sweden if usually stacked and the USA team is solid, could be better with Kessel etc of course, but that D on the Russian team. Woof! The Maple Leafs currently put a better blueline out than that whole country! lol
    10 team full keeper roto 4C/LW/RW,6D,2G

    G,A,P,+/-,PIM,SOG,GWG,PPP,SHP,Hit,Blk,FOW
    W,GAA,SV,SV%,SHO

    C-Aho,Couturier,Matthews,O'Reilly
    LW-Ehlers,Giroux,Panarin,Rust
    RW-Kucherov,Palmieri,Pastrnak,Wilson
    D-Burns,Carlson,Gudas,Josi,Nurse,Pietrangelo
    G-Fleury,F.Andersen,Markstrom
    BN-Zacha

    Under 250 gp farm
    Beaucage,Berggren,Bokk,Brisson,Chytil,Dugan,Foerst er,Foote,Frost,Grewe,K.Johnson,Lindblom,Mikheyev,N ybeck,Peterka,Pospisil,Protas,Ranta,Raty,Stankoven ,Suzuki,Tuomaala
    Alexeyev,Brook,Foote,Graves,Poirier,Sanderson,Seid er,Wilde,Woo,Zamula
    Berdin,Brossoit,Commesso,Ersson,Husso,Knight,Koche tkov,Lafontaine,Oettinger,Primeau,Sandstrom,Stolar z,Ustimenko,Vladar

  13. #3553
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Lest we forget the contingent of NHL coaches surrounding Babs at the last Olympics. So many in fact Hitchcock had to sit in the press box with Yzerman & Co.
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Heard on the radio that there's a feeling PK Subban is on the block to help create room now for Josi's impending new contract that would start for the 2020-21 season. The guy was talking to a Vancouver insider about him and how maybe this off-season with the draft being held in Vancouver, maybe they make a splash kind of thing. Got me thinking, would it be something Toronto should explore.

    PK Subban for Nylander.

    PK has 3yrs left at 9mill/yr. Nylander 6.96mill/yr for 5 more years.

    Do they even attempt this with the upcoming contracts of Marner, AJ, Kapanen, and more down the road in Muzzin, Andersen, Hyman, and Brown?
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  15. #3555
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    The Leafs lose some defensive depth as Ozhiganov expected to return to KHL


    Per sports-express: AkBars Kazan have traded Jiri Sekac to CSKA Moscow in exchange for the rights of Igor Ozhiganov. Toronto Maple Leafs player now expected to sign with Kazan team once he becomes a free agent on July 1st.

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