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Thread: Toronto Maple Leafs

  1. #3631
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Carey Price was a 5th overall pick. Sparks was a 7th Round pick.
    Apple meet orange.

    And until the Leafs actually win a round in the playoffs, I think it's perfectly fair for fans of the team to be critical, myself included. It's perfectly reasonable to suggest they might be making mistakes. Some might even reasonably suggest their program has hit a wall or maybe even regressed a little.

  2. #3632
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Carey Price was a 5th overall pick. Sparks was a 7th Round pick.
    Apple meet orange.

    And until the Leafs actually win a round in the playoffs, I think it's perfectly fair for fans of the team to be critical, myself included. It's perfectly reasonable to suggest they might be making mistakes. Some might even reasonably suggest their program has hit a wall or maybe even regressed a little.
    You should move around the circle and look at it from a different angle. The only reason we're in this cap crunch to begin with is because Marner, Nylander, Johnsson, Kapanen are all better - earlier than expected.

    It's a good problem to have.

    It's not like we just signed Beagle, Schaller & Roussel for 12m annually for 3+ years. Each.
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  3. #3633
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    I'm all for giving Dubas time to see how things shake out for him. It's not prudent or fair to cast judgement so early in his tenure.

    That being said however, we can start to develop an opinion and I don't believe he's off to a great start.
    - Tavares was a win and a good signing that got him off to a great start.
    - I do think that the time to sign both Matthews and Marner was last summer, and I think that they could have got them both on longer term and less money then what they will now end up getting. I don't know how the inner workings went down and who's most to blame for that, but I do think that was the biggest mistake that has been made and that it will end up hurting their chances to put together a competitive team under the cap.
    - The Nylander signing was not a win. The ultimate contract is not a big loss either and appears to be one that can be moved if needed and he bounces back (which I believe he will), but the fact that it resulted in derailing Nylander's season which ultimately hurt the team means it ends up being a negative.

    What he is able to achieve this off season will go a long way to cementing his legacy.
    - Marner's contract needs to be a win, and from the sounds of it, it is not going to be. After Shanahans extension, he indicated he had talked to Marner's agent and his comment was that the team would face significant cap constraints for the foreseeable future. The way it was brought up and discussed leads me to believe that Marner's camp will be looking for a high value contract. I do not see this being a win for the team.
    - The above being the case, how will he handle the rest of the roster? Will he be able to move the Marleau and Zaitsev anchor contracts? That would go a long way to freeing up space and making the cap manageable. Can he get Kapanen and Johnsson on team friendly contracts? From what I hear Kapanen is doable, Johnsson will not be. Will he be able to make efficient defensive additions? This is paramount to success next season.

    From what I hear, the cards are stacked against him and how things shake out this summer will go a long way to determining his legacy. This year was a bit of a stall in my opinion, and next year needs to be a strong step forward. However, based on the constraints moving forward, that might be hard to achieve.
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    The challenge for the Leafs is their roster is incomplete and they are facing inevitable cap problems.


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  5. #3635
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    You should move around the circle and look at it from a different angle.
    Ditto.

  6. #3636
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Ditto.
    When I see a gaffe, trust me, you'll know.

    Right now the two biggest ones on this roster are Marleau & Zaitsev. that's $10m... or Marner.
    Yesterday's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. - H.S.T.

  7. #3637
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Although this is entirely Monday morning quarterback, I think it's reasonable for one to opine that Shanahan rushed the transition to Dubas.
    In particular, I think Lou would have handled the Matthews and Nylander contracts better. Dubas is showing a little more green than most are willing to admit.
    HUH, it was Lams that let Nylander get too far to begin with. Should have locked him up cheap and long when Lams had the chance. Dubas never had that chance.

    Dubas only bad move so far was signing Matthews to 5 years instead of 8. He is easily worth the extra couple mill it would have taken.

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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    HUH, it was Lams that let Nylander get too far to begin with. Should have locked him up cheap and long when Lams had the chance. Dubas never had that chance.

    Dubas only bad move so far was signing Matthews to 5 years instead of 8. He is easily worth the extra couple mill it would have taken.
    And the extra couple million Marner would have asked for, once Matthews set that new bar...

    He sacrificed those three years to keep the cap hit manageable and to buy the Leafs window; it's not a bad gamble imo

  9. #3639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    HUH, it was Lams that let Nylander get too far to begin with. Should have locked him up cheap and long when Lams had the chance. Dubas never had that chance.

    Dubas only bad move so far was signing Matthews to 5 years instead of 8. He is easily worth the extra couple mill it would have taken.
    And the extra couple million Marner would have asked for, once Matthews set that new bar...

    He sacrificed those three years to keep the cap hit manageable and to buy the Leafs window; it's not a bad gamble imo

  10. #3640
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Matthews got 11.6 x 5 years.

    A year and a half earlier....McDavid got 12.5 on a 8 year deal?

    Why and how would it have to be an extra couple mill? 11.6 x 8 is what should have been done. Tavares just signed for 11...and only 7 years.

  11. #3641
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    HUH, it was Lams that let Nylander get too far to begin with. Should have locked him up cheap and long when Lams had the chance. Dubas never had that chance.

    Dubas only bad move so far was signing Matthews to 5 years instead of 8. He is easily worth the extra couple mill it would have taken.

    It took Dubas almost 7 months to sign Nylander. That's not on "Lams".
    And then he caved and gave him too much when he finally did sign him. Definitely a bad move and even he concedes this.
    He should have dug in and let him sit the whole year.
    Otherwise, sign him in July or August, 2018 but only after extending Marner and Matthews first. Those are your cornerstones.

    And, yes, as mentioned, locking up Matthews to only 5 years to save a million in cap hit was another bad move. How in the world can he justify 6 years for Nylander and only 5 for Matthews ?

    Choosing Sparks as the backup - another bad move.

    Trading a 1st and Grunnstrom for Muzzin - I'm 50/50 on this one, but I think it will prove to be another bad move.

    Even if one wants to debate those, what has Dubas undeniably done RIGHT in his first year as GM ? Basically, nothing.

    One can choose to blast Lou for Zaitsev and Marleau, and yes he should be blasted for those contracts, although I really think both were done to please Babcock who adores both those players for some reason.
    But whatever, even if we blame Lou for those 2 bad mistakes, he also deserves a big pat on the back for these undeniably excellent moves:
    Rielly extension
    Kadri extension
    Andersen trade and extension
    Phaneuf trade (nobody thought this deal was possible)
    Polak trade (how in the world does one get two 2nd rounders for Polak?!)
    Winnick for Carrick and a 2nd (undeniable value even tho Babs pissed away Carrick)
    Rosen signing, Borgman too

    I don't know, people love to crap on Lou because he's old. But he did a tonne of good things here. Dubas hasn't really done much yet, so not sure why he is so revered.

  12. #3642
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Dubas/Hunter took over for Nonis on April 2015, Lou Lam was hired July 23rd 2015. So between Dubas, Hunter, and Shanahan they got:

    -Hyman+Condition 7th for McKegg
    -Marincin+Ross for a 4th
    -Kapanen, Harrington, Spaling, Conditional 1st, 3rd round for Kessel, Erixon, Biggs, Conditional 2nd
    -Beck for Devane
    -Signed Hunwick
    -Signed Parenteau
    -Signed Arcobello
    -Signed Winnik (got Laich, Carrick, and a 2nd (Grundstrom) for trading Winnik to Caps)
    -Signed Matthias (got 4th (Keaton Middleton) and Colin Smith for trading Matthias to Avs)

    After the 2017-18, Lou became an advisory role, and Dubas took over. After the 2018 season, these trades happened:

    -McAdam for Martin
    -Condition 7th for Carrick
    -Klimchuk for Nielsen
    -Carcone for Leivo
    -Oleksy for Cracknell
    -Hutchinson for 5th rounder
    -Gagne for Klimchuk
    -Muzzin for Grundstrom, Durzi, 1st
    -Baptiste for Future Considerations
    -Petan for Lindholm

    It's not like Dubas has only signed JT. He's made a lot of other moves.
    12 team, H2H, 6 keeper league (Keepers in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, +/-, PPP, PIM, FW
    W, GAA, S%, Saves
    2C, 2RW, 2LW, 4D, 2G
    C: Eichel, Pettersson (C), Zibanejad,
    LW: Marchand, Couture (C), Parise, Dubois (LW)
    RW: Marner (C), Kessel, Keller (C, LW)
    D: Barrie, Yandle, Suter, Poluck
    G: Andersen (G), Dubnyk, Murray
    IR+: Karlsson

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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    Dubas/Hunter took over for Nonis on April 2015, Lou Lam was hired July 23rd 2015. So between Dubas, Hunter, and Shanahan they got:

    -Hyman+Condition 7th for McKegg
    -Marincin+Ross for a 4th
    -Kapanen, Harrington, Spaling, Conditional 1st, 3rd round for Kessel, Erixon, Biggs, Conditional 2nd
    -Beck for Devane
    -Signed Hunwick
    -Signed Parenteau
    -Signed Arcobello
    -Signed Winnik (got Laich, Carrick, and a 2nd (Grundstrom) for trading Winnik to Caps)
    -Signed Matthias (got 4th (Keaton Middleton) and Colin Smith for trading Matthias to Avs)

    After the 2017-18, Lou became an advisory role, and Dubas took over. After the 2018 season, these trades happened:

    -McAdam for Martin
    -Condition 7th for Carrick
    -Klimchuk for Nielsen
    -Carcone for Leivo
    -Oleksy for Cracknell
    -Hutchinson for 5th rounder
    -Gagne for Klimchuk
    -Muzzin for Grundstrom, Durzi, 1st
    -Baptiste for Future Considerations
    -Petan for Lindholm

    It's not like Dubas has only signed JT. He's made a lot of other moves.
    Are you trying to sell Dubas as making great moves after Lou left because none of those deals are anything special from what I can see.


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  14. #3644
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    Are you trying to sell Dubas as making great moves after Lou left because none of those deals are anything special from what I can see.
    nope, just saying giving all the information out on what Dubas has done from what I've found. I ran out of time researching who he's resigned this yr too.

    Letting the people get all his moves out there instead of the ones that are always commented on (Sparks, Nylander, JT, Muzzin)
    12 team, H2H, 6 keeper league (Keepers in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, +/-, PPP, PIM, FW
    W, GAA, S%, Saves
    2C, 2RW, 2LW, 4D, 2G
    C: Eichel, Pettersson (C), Zibanejad,
    LW: Marchand, Couture (C), Parise, Dubois (LW)
    RW: Marner (C), Kessel, Keller (C, LW)
    D: Barrie, Yandle, Suter, Poluck
    G: Andersen (G), Dubnyk, Murray
    IR+: Karlsson

  15. #3645
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    Default Re: Toronto Maple Leafs

    oops, I just realized I mistakenly said Dubas had done nothing undeniably right in his first year.
    Signing JT was a pretty significant coup and Dubas deserves credit for that move at least.

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