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Thread: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

  1. #961
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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    Can we please stop with the taxtrate differences? It's not nearly as big as it seems and any player with a decent accountant and financial planner won't pay any more taxes than players in other states/provinces.

    This has been proven time and time again.

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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    An advantage for players on Canadian teams, that I never see mentioned, is the fact that they're paid in USD. I know a lot of them move around in the summer, but if they spend the majority of their time in Canada, they're seeing an additional $0.20 to $0.40 on the dollar depending on the exchange rate.

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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Can we please stop with the taxtrate differences? It's not nearly as big as it seems and any player with a decent accountant and financial planner won't pay any more taxes than players in other states/provinces.

    This has been proven time and time again.
    It is a big deal. If you want to ignore it, feel free.
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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Can we please stop with the taxtrate differences? It's not nearly as big as it seems and any player with a decent accountant and financial planner won't pay any more taxes than players in other states/provinces.

    This has been proven time and time again.
    There's taxes on everything. From your pay, to what you purchase every day. It all affects everyone. If a player in Montreal purchases a home there, they pay more in taxes than someone who lives in a US state with no taxes. If they fill their car up, they pay taxes on that gas. Taxes on the beer they purchase. Taxes on the food they eat.

    Ask anyone in Canada who is looking at their T4 and seeing how much income tax was deducted off their pay, then think about how much tax you pay on your everyday purchases.

    To say it's not a big deal to some, even millionaires playing in the NHL (who make more so they spend more), you're wrong. It affects everyone, even NHL players.
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  5. #965
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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Can we please stop with the taxtrate differences? It's not nearly as big as it seems and any player with a decent accountant and financial planner won't pay any more taxes than players in other states/provinces.

    This has been proven time and time again.
    I don't profess to be any sort of tax expert, and I have heard that what you say is true to a degree...however, I do wonder if players still prefer to sign in a low-tax or tax-free State vs a Canadian city just to avoid the hassle of having to worry about dealing with the tax issue. I mean, a player may perhaps sign in a Canadian city if that's where he will get the most money, but if he'd get the same money to sign in say Tampa or Dallas, why wouldn't the player just sign there instead to avoid the grief?

    Also, there must be something to the tax situation in Canada, or why else would we keep seeing players have all the Canadian teams on their no-trade lists?

    I am being completely sincere when I ask that question.
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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    Tax advantage is just as powerful as other location advantages all teams have. Like if you remove a tax advantage, do you make it mandatory that all weight rooms and medical staffs be the same? Or everyone has to pay out the contracts signing bonuses the same? Or everyone's arena has to be identical?

    Leafs flexed their organizational muscle by having an AHL team essentially operating at NHL levels, better food, better travel, better everything. It took a while, but Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Texas flexed their organizational muscle.

    The only difference in Toronto's taxed players and Florida's is that Toronto players won't get that taxed money until they retire essentially. They take a ton of their paycheque and put it into other investments and what not to hide from taxes, but they can't touch it until they retire. So try telling a 27yr old, "You'll make $10m in Toronto or Florida, but Toronto you won't touch half until your 65yrs old".

    The only 2 loopholes I see that should be fixed is the LTIR cap BS, and include bench coaching staff in the cap (raise the cap to include the staff). Only include the bench staff. I'm sure there's crazy loopholes you can see (have Keefe in the pressbox and mic down everything to not be included in the cap), but I think the coaches get enough influence in the game where they should be included in the cap. And have fired coaches count somehow. I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks this way though.
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  7. #967
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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    Tax advantage is just as powerful as other location advantages all teams have. Like if you remove a tax advantage, do you make it mandatory that all weight rooms and medical staffs be the same? Or everyone has to pay out the contracts signing bonuses the same? Or everyone's arena has to be identical?

    Leafs flexed their organizational muscle by having an AHL team essentially operating at NHL levels, better food, better travel, better everything. It took a while, but Florida, Tampa, Vegas, and Texas flexed their organizational muscle.

    The only difference in Toronto's taxed players and Florida's is that Toronto players won't get that taxed money until they retire essentially. They take a ton of their paycheque and put it into other investments and what not to hide from taxes, but they can't touch it until they retire. So try telling a 27yr old, "You'll make $10m in Toronto or Florida, but Toronto you won't touch half until your 65yrs old".

    The only 2 loopholes I see that should be fixed is the LTIR cap BS, and include bench coaching staff in the cap (raise the cap to include the staff). Only include the bench staff. I'm sure there's crazy loopholes you can see (have Keefe in the pressbox and mic down everything to not be included in the cap), but I think the coaches get enough influence in the game where they should be included in the cap. And have fired coaches count somehow. I'm sure I'm the only one who thinks this way though.
    It doesn't bother you that players like Kucherov, MTkachuk, Barkov, Point, and just Forsling last week all signed contracts a little under market value because they get that tax break in Florida when every single Toronto star is paid at the full market rate? A million here and a million there adds up in a hard-cap salary league. I know weather plays a role but it doesn't seem to happen as much with the high-tax California teams.
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  8. #968
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    Default Re: Elliotte Friedman's 32 Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    It doesn't bother you that players like Kucherov, MTkachuk, Barkov, Point, and just Forsling last week all signed contracts a little under market value because they get that tax break in Florida when every single Toronto star is paid at the full market rate? A million here and a million there adds up in a hard-cap salary league. I know weather plays a role but it doesn't seem to happen as much with the high-tax California teams.
    You can't make things even when it comes to players decisions.

    Then you start looking at it's technically that they get taxed based on where they play each game. So Barkov pays taxes on 41 home games+whatever games you play in Tampa then road games. How do you even that out?

    "Ok each year where going to calculate based off the schedule and have each team operate at very random cap numbers". Then in 10 years you're going to have players find out you can essentially evade taxes in Ontario or MTL and go there over California and then it'll be "OMG there's a loophole in the signing bonus tax rules in Ontario...they only get taxed 10% instead of 38%, that's not fair!"

    There are far bigger fish to fry than this. And the only way you fix it is during a full year lockout, because it's such a HUGE thing to navigate. Then tax brackets change. Like 5yrs ago the tax percentage was about 5% lower in Toronto, and about 6% higher in Tennessee so what you're trying to even out fluctuates, then it whoever is leading the provinces/states change things.

    So do you consider tax situation a perk? Then you open the door to managing perks on a city-by-city bases. Like would Auston Matthews get an Uber deal as big in another city? Would Leaf players getting free leases and condo deals in other cities? Would alumni boxes and things like that need to start getting managed? It's only an issue because people can't see the other perks.


    It's impossible to fix.
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