Leafs - Believe it or not it could be worse...

[Dobber]

Notch had a whole big discussion going a couple of months ago when he pointed out the fact that Toronto has played a lopsided amount of their games against backup goalies. That exploded into a big debate between Leaf backers and Leaf bashers - who is defined as a \"backup\"? What if the the starter was on the IR, would the \"backup\" then be considered a starter?\"
Whatever.
I mention because I decided to use that as the basis for the feature component of the Daily Slate for December 31.

In my own research, of the 39 games played, Toronto has faced a backup goaltender 17 times. That\'s 43.5%. Teams aren\'t respecting the Leafs and I don\'t blame them. In my books, the time to give the starter a rest is for a game against a weak team and they don\'t get any weaker than Toronto.
My assumptions:
1. Gerber is a starter. This wasn\'t actually the case in October, but he is clearly the starter now so let\'s call him the starter for every game this year.
2. Ramo is a backup. With Tampa, let\'s call Holmqvist the starter because, hell, there really isn\'t a choice.
3. I know Lehtonen was on the IR, but Hedberg is still a backup goalie so when the Leafs played him he is considered a backup for this report.

Here is the rundown of their games:
S=starter, B=backup

S Gerber OTL
S Gerber L
S Huet W
S Ward L
B Dubie W
B Sabourin (but Fleury came in later) L
B Thibault OTL
B Anderson W
B Lalime L
B Hedberg OTL
S Fleury W
S Lundqvist W
S Kolzig L
S Brodeur L
S Huet W
S Gerber L
S Miller W
B Valiquette OTL
B Price OTL
S Thomas L
S Gerber W
B Rask L
S Turco L
S Bryzgalov L
B Price OTL
B Hedberg W
B Sabourin W
S Mason W
S Lundqvist W
S Auld W
S Holmqvist W
S Lehtonen W
B Price L
B Grahame OTL
B Ramo L
S Vokoun W
B Dubie OTL
S Biron L
B Valiquette L

Toronto\'s record vs. the backup is 4-6-7. Wow. Imagine if they played the starters in those games. Could their 29th-ranked 15 wins have been 13 if they faced a starter more often?

Admittedly I am a Leaf fan, but I have made it no secret that for the last two years I pretty much steer clear of watching the games. I have the NHL package so I\'ll watch any other game pretty much. I only watch the Leafs when I\'m with my dad or with a buddy - then I really don\'t have a choice. It\'s frustrating because they strive for immediate mediocrity rather than immediate suffering for future success. Until that changes, I probably will continue to be hard on them.

B)

[repenttokyo]

numbers for other NHL teams like St Louis, Pitts, etc?

[joos]

My most hated team...Toronto. I love hockey so much, played it till I was in university, so it kills me that I live in Toronto, I hate the leafs, the team/management is horrible and it is nearly impossible to get tickets to watch this crappy team.

[Dobber]

repenttokyo wrote:

numbers for other NHL teams like St Louis, Pitts, etc?

:lol:
Sorry, don\'t have 40 hours to do the other research! But if every team faced a backup 43.5% of the time, then we probably shouldn\'t be calling them a \"backup\" since they\'re playing in 43.5% of the games right?

[repenttokyo]

that\'s an interesting point - what is the nominal number of games each franchise plays against a backup. It must be pretty high, if most starting G only start 60 or so games....

[Shao]

When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense.

Goalies aren\'t the main factor most of the time. They rarely have the puck.

With the way most teams dominate Toronto or at least put up enough shots that our sub-par goaltending kills us, why would they fear to put in their back-up?

We have one legitimate line, 2 lines that are number 2 lines in quality, and a decent checking line.

The defense has been worse, but isn\'t really a shut down type of defense.

Add to the fact that they get booed at home and it\'s so quiet in there you can hear the on-ice chatter, then you get teams with a lot of confidence when playing toronto.

Honestly, I could see them winning 2 less games if it weren\'t the back-ups in there, but it doesn\'t matter.

They are a bad team and deserve to be 29th in wins. They\'ll kick it up near the end when it doesn\'t matter or when Toskala and McCrap comes back.

[narduch]

LOL. Toronto has a winning record against starters. :laugh:

Based on your back-up record, the Leafs are 11-10-1 against starters.

Maybe the Leafs have a problem getting psyched up for the back up and actually play better when the main goalie is in net? Haven\'t the Leafs chased Lundy twice this season?

Very weird if you ask me.

Edit: [rant] Man I hate the NHL W-L-OTL system. The Leafs stink but according to their record they aren\'t that bad. I wish the NHL would implement a MLB style standing with Wins and Losses only, this way the Leafs record would be 15-24 and management wouldn\'t pretend there is a glimmer of hope for the playoffs. [/rant]

[Dobber]

Shao wrote:

They\'ll kick it up near the end when it doesn\'t matter or when Toskala and McCrap comes back.

Yep, whatever they can do to get as poor a draft pick as they can without making the playoffs...even though they traded their pick away, the standings still count for where they pick in the other rounds.

[Dobber]

narduch wrote:

I wish the NHL would implement a MLB style standing with Wins and Losses only, this way the Leafs record would be 15-24 and management wouldn\'t pretend there is a glimmer of hope for the playoffs. [/rant]

I love this quote and love your point! Bang on! Bob McCown always goes off on that one too. How JFJ says they\'re at .500 or one game below...but really, they\'re NINE below!!

[narduch]

Dobber wrote:

narduch wrote:

I wish the NHL would implement a MLB style standing with Wins and Losses only, this way the Leafs record would be 15-24 and management wouldn\'t pretend there is a glimmer of hope for the playoffs. [/rant]

I love this quote and love your point! Bang on! Bob McCown always goes off on that one too. How JFJ says they\'re at .500 or one game below...but really, they\'re NINE below!!

But change will never happen though. The NHL loves their current scoring system. They have managed to create \'parity\' without a real parity in talent level between teams. If every team can tell their fans they are chasing a playoff spot its good for business. The Leafs aren\'t the only bad team who look better than they are because of the scoring system.

Re: McCowan. He wants to implement a 4-3-2-1 scoring system. I think that is crazy. A simple W and L system is the best, imo.

[PulltheTrigger]

Yet, CBC continues to show the leafs on HNIC more than any other Canadian team. This season alone they are on 28 times where as the better canadian teams like Vancouver are only on 14 times. Ridiculous.

But hey, the new CBC contract goes into affect next season where they have promised to show only a maxmimum of 23 leafs games! idiots.

[narduch]

This is explained entirely by population demographics. No matter how much the Leafs suck, there are simply so many people in the GTA that the ratings will be higher than any other Canadian teams, no matter what.

[doulos]

narduch wrote:
But change will never happen though. The NHL loves their current scoring system. They have managed to create \'parity\' without a real parity in talent level between teams. If every team can tell their fans they are chasing a playoff spot its good for business. The Leafs aren\'t the only bad team who look better than they are because of the scoring system.
[/quote]

Very true. But they do have the biggest advantage.

Other teams without the OT points...

Calgary - 18-21
Edmonton - 16-23
Anaheim - 19-22
Columbus - 17-21

Or the Habs who look to be a very strong team by the paper. They are 19-20 - a sub .500 team?!

[narduch]

Great point doulos, I was thinking of doing a standing of the entire league using W and L only, but I\'m too lazy.

Maybe tomorrow while I\'m sobering up. :laugh:

[Sin Bin]

narduch wrote:

This is explained entirely by population demographics. No matter how much the Leafs suck, there are simply so many people in the GTA that the ratings will be higher than any other Canadian teams, no matter what.

This is exactly why they are on so much. TV is a business and the way to make the most money is to have the highest rating. Why do you think they always have the Knicks or Yankees on against the Lakers or Red Sox? They get ratings. I could care less about watching them but I understand why they do it.