Edmonton Oilers

[Axeman33]

Ken Holland actively chose to enter this season with Moke Smoth and Mokko Koskonen as his goaltenders. He should be criticized for not upgrading in the offseason and he should be criticized for not upgrading now. It doesn't matter if he is "trying", he is failing. You don't get a degree if you try really hard but fail every course.

It's not a very good analogy considering considering Holland cannot control when players contracts determine if they want to go to Edmonton or not, or when he is competing against other GMs when making offers but I get what you're trying to say. Failing a course is completely on the person doing the schooling.

[rataylor22]

Pittsburgh, as a town, is not all that glamorous of a place. But for the last 15 years players have wanted to go to Pittsburgh.

Connor McDavid has played in Edmonton for 7 years. If players don't want to go to Edmonton, that's a management problem, which includes Ken Holland, not a city of Edmonton problem.

I fundamentally disagree that Holland cannot control if players want to come to Edmonton. Show you're a competent manager and build a competing team, players will want to go there.

[Axeman33]

Pittsburgh, as a town, is not all that glamorous of a place. But for the last 15 years players have wanted to go to Pittsburgh.

Connor McDavid has played in Edmonton for 7 years. If players don't want to go to Edmonton, that's a management problem, which includes Ken Holland, not a city of Edmonton problem.

I fundamentally disagree that Holland cannot control if players want to come to Edmonton. Show you're a competent manager and build a competing team, players will want to go there.

It's so much more than building a competent team and you know this. Pretty much every Canadian city struggles to lure high profile FAs to their city. Taxes suck. Weather sucks. Canada sucks to hockey most players.

Who was the last big name FA Pittsburgh signed? Pittsburgh was successful in winning Cups because they had a good team and a great goalie. There is no doubt that Ken Holland's greatest failure to date is not getting a legit #1 goalie. I know this. You know this. Hell, even Ken Holland probably knows this. The whole hockey world knows this by now.

What's that old saying "show me a great goalie and I'll show you a successful coach". It's not rocket science but clearly obtaining one is starting to look that way.

[rataylor22]

Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, all have had no issues luring free agents and acquiring players in trade. Who was the last big name FA Pittsburgh signed? I couldn't tell you because blowing your brains out in FA goes poorly, roughly 98% of the time. That, like many other things, is part of Edmonton's problem. But nobody is blocking a trade to go and try and win a cup with Crosby and Malkin. Wild that players would consider it to play with McDavid and Draisaitl.

There are like 4 places in the NHL where taxes are highly advantageous. Canadian market teams skate by on that excuse because most people don't understand tax law. The tax thing is close to irrelevant for entertainers, who pay taxes in the city they play in not the city they live in, and there are lots of things players can do to shield their money from taxes. It is really a fake excuse. Not to mention Canadian players make US dollars but have Canadian expenses, how come nobody talks about the ~20% pay bump Canadian players get?

[2014olympicgold]

Ken Holland's issue isn't a lack of trying. It's the lack of being creative in his moves. He seems to just get known people and hopes they work. And his budget moves never work. And he doesn't have the creative ability to make contracts disappear and even if he did a "Player X + 1st round pick to just cap dump" he lacks the ability to either hire people to properly scout, or he lacks the ability to find diamonds in the rough.

I don't think he's bad, I think he isn't creative at making budget contracts work, and he can't make bad deals disappear. He had cap space this past offseason and used it in non-creative solution ways. He had the opportunity to maybe even overpay for Markstrom (as an example) to convince him to come to Edmonton, but because of his inability to find creative solutions I doubt he would have been able to fill other holes cheaply.

And I'm shocked that Edmonton can't campaign a new arena, and playing with McDavid or Draisaitl or whatever in a way to get people to come there. Like "Hey, play 1 season with us and we'll rebuild your stock and you can hit the open market and get even more". They did that to Kane, but it's not like they were heavily competing with a lot of people. But do that more.

Just my thoughts on Holland and his goaltending woes.

[PenguinHunter]

Calgary, Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal, all have had no issues luring free agents and acquiring players in trade. Who was the last big name FA Pittsburgh signed? I couldn't tell you because blowing your brains out in FA goes poorly, roughly 98% of the time. That, like many other things, is part of Edmonton's problem. But nobody is blocking a trade to go and try and win a cup with Crosby and Malkin. Wild that players would consider it to play with McDavid and Draisaitl.

There are like 4 places in the NHL where taxes are highly advantageous. Canadian market teams skate by on that excuse because most people don't understand tax law. The tax thing is close to irrelevant for entertainers, who pay taxes in the city they play in not the city they live in, and there are lots of things players can do to shield their money from taxes. It is really a fake excuse. Not to mention Canadian players make US dollars but have Canadian expenses, how come nobody talks about the ~20% pay bump Canadian players get?

How does this result in a pay bump? Are we assuming that if Product A is $5USD in the United States than Product A is $5CDN in Canada?

[Axeman33]

Ken Holland's issue isn't a lack of trying. It's the lack of being creative in his moves. He seems to just get known people and hopes they work. And his budget moves never work. And he doesn't have the creative ability to make contracts disappear and even if he did a "Player X + 1st round pick to just cap dump" he lacks the ability to either hire people to properly scout, or he lacks the ability to find diamonds in the rough.

I don't think he's bad, I think he isn't creative at making budget contracts work, and he can't make bad deals disappear. He had cap space this past offseason and used it in non-creative solution ways. He had the opportunity to maybe even overpay for Markstrom (as an example) to convince him to come to Edmonton, but because of his inability to find creative solutions I doubt he would have been able to fill other holes cheaply.

And I'm shocked that Edmonton can't campaign a new arena, and playing with McDavid or Draisaitl or whatever in a way to get people to come there. Like "Hey, play 1 season with us and we'll rebuild your stock and you can hit the open market and get even more". They did that to Kane, but it's not like they were heavily competing with a lot of people. But do that more.

Just my thoughts on Holland and his goaltending woes.

You make some excellent points, and I cannot disagree with your train of thought on Holland. They did kinda do that with Barrie and EKane as far as getting someone to come there, on a discount at that, but the goaltending is still the greatest need. On a side note, Markstrom was two summers ago, not last summer when Holland had the space.

[2014olympicgold]

You make some excellent points, and I cannot disagree with your train of thought on Holland. On a side note, Markstrom was two summers ago, not last summer when Holland had the space.

Well even then he lacks the ability to overpay for Markstrom and make a contract creatively disappear lol. My point still stands tho that Holland isn't creative.

Like I don't doubt he's talking to teams or to goalies, but it's like "Oh crap, I can't go over this dollar figure because I need this money for this player" instead of finding a way around his issues. Or he's like "Ok TeamX, I want GoalieX but this needs to happen" and they say "No we aren't do that" (taking contract/eating salary) and he's like "Dang oh well" and calls the next team. Then reports come out like "Holland was in on Fleury, Oettinger, Holtby, Korp blah blah blah". It's like "Ok he was...technically".

All of the above is totally hypothetical though. But I just get the feeling that's what his issue is.

[kovalchuk17]

I definitely wouldnt want to be in the history books as the GM who squandered the prime of probably the best player in the game (plus another MVP!).

[Axeman33]

Love them or hate them, everyone loves talking about the Oilers.

[2014olympicgold]

Love them or hate them, everyone loves talking about the Oilers.

Oh ya. Flawed teams with talented players are fun to talk about lol (coming from a Leafs fans lol)

[rataylor22]

How does this result in a pay bump? Are we assuming that if Product A is $5USD in the United States than Product A is $5CDN in Canada?

Are you assuming that Product A costs $5USD in San Jose, Phoenix, and New York City? Are you assuming that it also costs the same in Toronto and Calgary? The US and Canada are big countries.

[PenguinHunter]

Are you assuming that Product A costs $5USD in San Jose, Phoenix, and New York City? Are you assuming that it also costs the same in Toronto and Calgary? The US and Canada are big countries.

Exactly! Thanks for adding to my point.

But I am still unsure how it results in the pay bump that you mentioned.

Does this also apply to Swedish and Russian players too? Cause there currencies are not as strong as the US Dollar either?

I am honestly confused by your statement.

[rataylor22]

Unsurprised.

[chuckcouples]

PH...here's some reading for you

https://www.economist.com/big-mac-index