Whose Given Up on Steve Mason?

[Hawks1]

Well Im sure hes been dropped or luckily traded by some in one year leagues but Im thinking of us in longterm leagues, most likely large deep or full Keepers, where we put alot of hope in him when we drafted or traded for him.

Will this guy get it back? Whats got to be done? Maybe a confidence thing? Maybe a trip to the farm to work on his game & get it back?

Maybe he wont be the "rookie year" Mason. And yeah he played under a tight defensive system with Hitchcock but come on he was incredible also.

I look at this thread in a twofold sense.

1) An opportunity for us Mason owners to Vent
2) An opportunity to share possible solutions, comments, articles that might give us Mason owners hope that things will change in the future.

All I want is some basis for your posts. IE; no 'Mason Sucks' or simple things like; He'll be okay....Please say WHY you feel the way you do!

Ah Ive already started my frustrating vent...take over guys I need to exhale....

[valec]

I share the same feelings and have posted once or twice in the past couple weeks about him too.
I've tried to put him out there for a trade, but no bites.
All other teams in my league either have their starters locked up or have their own prospects they're waiting on.

I've had the opportunity to drop him, but others have posted to hold on.

From what I've heard, Mason is the main guy eventually for Columbus. I just think they're riding the hot hand right now with Garon.

I have the same situation with with Rask. Rask I know should be a great goaltender and should start for sure next year as Boston will have cap issues to hold onto Thomas.

My only troubles is WILL Mason be the go to guy next year.

My thinking on this for my team is I already have two prospects in Rask and Neuvirth.
Do I need another?
Yes I understand that if I drop him someone else could get him for nothing. But if I can't get anything for him why wait him out.
There appears to be lots of goaltender switches between teams in the past couple years, so I don't see it being hard to pickup a starter.

If I has Mason in a one year league, he'd have been gone last week.

I'm currently fighting for the top three and it would be nice to have a proven starter to go with.
With Garon hot, I could pick him up. Niittymaki appears to be the guy in SJ and he's available in my league. Thomas was last week, but is no gone. Even another prospect, Lindback is available to pick up and he appears to be better than Mason, but won't get any playing time behind Rinne.

Columbus is starting to look better. They played some pretty lazy games I thought in front of Mason, but then again, Mason does need to help his own cause.
This team is only going to improve and they've got quite a bit of young ones still trying to find their groove on the team (i.e. Voracek, Brassard, Filatov, Russell).
As you mentioned, I don't think we'll see his rookie season again, but that doesn't mean his save pct could't get better.

I'd love to hear more thoughts on Mason owners.

[maurauder]

^^^ unlikely, Thomas has too big a contract to trade away, and Boston isn't going to buy him out. And that's aside from the what if if Rask really plays well this season or not, he should, but enough rookie goaltenders have bad second years that it's in no way a given.

Getting back on topic we could be viewing sort of a Toskala type situation, where he looks great at first but after teams get used to playing him all sorts of holes in their games start to pile up. We could alternatively be looking at a Price situation, but Price never had the year S.Mason had last year. I would look for a new prospect instead of keeping the faith, whether you should drop him or not is up to you, I know when I have really bad goalie problems I'll enact a goalie stockpile, where I more than cover my bases with all sorts of promising options and it usually works out fine.

[sparrowtrini]

And yeah he played under a tight defensive system with Hitchcock but come on he was incredible also.

I totally agree. Anyone who saw him play knows it went beyond any defensive system(Sure that helped) he was oozing with confidence.

And here in lies the problem for young rookie Goalies(and i dont always blame the team organization for this as when the Goalies are standouts, especially in a small markets, its hard to hold them back. Kudos to Ottawa for not throwing Lehner into the fire when LeClaire was hurt & Elliot was inconsistant.) when they are given the big task b4 they are ready. We saw it with Cam Ward(when he was younger) in his long playoff run with the Hurricanes. We saw it with Carry Price. When they start to struggle(which all Goalies go thru. Yet easier for Vets to overcome) and/or their head gets a little big etc they often fall flat on their face and have to get back up(Big learning curve). GG - Justin - added its a mental thing. And I agree.

Ward(took even longer) and Price look to have recovered(Got it back).
I still believe in Mason(he was too good in his rookie season & WJC/Juniors not too). He just may need a little more time to sit back and watch. I think he puts too much pressure on himself too. Perhaps Garon's(who is a stop gap) starting will motivate him. Maybe he'll need a trip to the minors(that has helped many youngsters. I rem Don Beaupre burst onto the seen with the Minnesota North Stars years ago. Great rookie season. Then the Mason flop. They sent him to the minors and he came back a better all around Goalie for it) to get his game back but he may be better for it.

I just say dont give up on him yet. Its way too early!

[shook81]

Here's the thing about Mason....if you take out his two insanely hot months of November and December in 2008/09, and you get an average stat line each year that falls between 2.70/3.00 GAA, .905 SV%, and 1 SO per every 10 games. On average he won a game slightly less than half the time...and all these numbers were accrued while playing for a "defensive-minded" team.

The shutouts are nice, but those two peripheral stats (GAA & SV%) are actually below average. Quite simply, he is not an elite goalie. I think he found himself playing very well at the right time (injury to Leclaire) and at the right place (Hitchcock's reduce scoring at all costs system). People seem to forget what Pascal Leclaire did under similar circumstances on the same team the year prior...and no one is considering him have the potential to be an elite netminder.

He's another thing...Leclaire was drafted in the 1st round, 8th overall in 2001. Mason? 3rd round in 2006...69th overall. Drafts can be fickle, I agree...especially for goalies, but it seems many scouts felt that Mason did not have the star power that some currently perceive him having. Both Leclaire and Mason received a ton of praise while playing for a team/coach who took defensive team play to the extreme. When Hitchcock's system imploded last season, and it most certainly did, Mason's true statistical worth became evident.

To sum it all up...my conclusion is that Steve Mason is a decent yet unspectacular goalie who was able to capitalize on a perfect storm of timely injuries and phenomenal team play. He was able to convert two extraordinary months into a long-term contract and a full-time gig, and good on him. However, any expectations of him to perform at or even near the level he did during those two months in 2008/09 is wishful thinking.

[blunas]

I gave up on him last week, do not see any light at the end of that tunnel. He is not going to get picked up with the way he is playing so I will keep an eye on him but nothing I have seen so far gives me any hope. It came down to him and Neuvirth and I went with Neuvirth without a second thought.

[blunas]

Well put, Shook

[Seeds of Grapes]

Is Garon the starter?

[goldenbrett]

great insight Shook. I agree with everything you said. LeClaire also had led the league in shutouts before getting hurt and having Mason come in. It was clearly the Hitchcock system, those 2 had i think 18 shutouts in 2 years. Like Justin says, Mason is a mental case. I too was holding out hope in a dynasty keeper league. This week was the last straw, i traded him for another upcoming goalie, Pavelec. I like the upside on him better.

I would have been happy with just a good GAA and SV%, but he cant even do that. I was reasonably expecting a stat line between his rookie year and last year, but so far it looks like last year may be the norm. Good luck to all fellow Mason owners, my blood pressure could not take him no more.

[C.J]

Here's the thing about Mason....if you take out his two insanely hot months of November and December in 2008/09, and you get an average stat line each year that falls between 2.70/3.00 GAA, .905 SV%, and 1 SO per every 10 games. On average he won a game slightly less than half the time...and all these numbers were accrued while playing for a "defensive-minded" team.

The shutouts are nice, but those two peripheral stats (GAA & SV%) are actually below average. Quite simply, he is not an elite goalie. I think he found himself playing very well at the right time (injury to Leclaire) and at the right place (Hitchcock's reduce scoring at all costs system). People seem to forget what Pascal Leclaire did under similar circumstances on the same team the year prior...and no one is considering him have the potential to be an elite netminder.

He's another thing...Leclaire was drafted in the 1st round, 8th overall in 2001. Mason? 3rd round in 2006...69th overall. Drafts can be fickle, I agree...especially for goalies, but it seems many scouts felt that Mason did not have the star power that some currently perceive him having. Both Leclaire and Mason received a ton of praise while playing for a team/coach who took defensive team play to the extreme. When Hitchcock's system imploded last season, and it most certainly did, Mason's true statistical worth became evident.

To sum it all up...my conclusion is that Steve Mason is a decent yet unspectacular goalie who was able to capitalize on a perfect storm of timely injuries and phenomenal team play. He was able to convert two extraordinary months into a long-term contract and a full-time gig, and good on him. However, any expectations of him to perform at or even near the level he did during those two months in 2008/09 is wishful thinking.

A goalies draft position means absolutely nothing in regards if they can be an NHL starting goalie....if anything a high draft position puts a ton of pressure on a goalie to be NHL ready faster.


Lundqvist: 7th Rnd, 205th by NYR
Thomas: 9th Rnd, 217th by QUE
Quick: 3rd Rnd, 72nd by LOS
Halak: 9th Rnd, 271st by MON
Kiprusoff: 5th Rnd, 116th by SAN

[shook81]

A goalies draft position means absolutely nothing in regards if they can be an NHL starting goalie....if anything a high draft position puts a ton of pressure on a goalie to be NHL ready faster.


Lundqvist: 7th Rnd, 205th by NYR
Thomas: 9th Rnd, 217th by QUE
Quick: 3rd Rnd, 72nd by LOS
Halak: 9th Rnd, 271st by MON
Kiprusoff: 5th Rnd, 116th by SAN

There will always be exceptions regardless of position, and as I stated above drafting is not an exact science...particularly with goalies. However, to counter your list, these guys turned out alright thus far:

Brodeur: 1990 - 1st round (20th overall) by the New Jersey Devils
Giguere: 1995 - 1st round (13th overall) by the Hartford Whalers
Luongo: 1997 - 1st round (4th overall) by the New York Islanders
Ward: 2002 - 1st round (25th overall) by the Carolina Hurricanes
Lehtonen: 2002 - 1st round (2nd overall) by the Atlanta Thrashers
Fleury: 2003 - 1st round (1st overall) by the Pittsburgh Penguins
Price: 2005 - 1st round (5th overall) by the Montreal Canadiens
Rask: 2005 - 1st round (21st overall) by the Toronto Maple Leafs
Varlamov: 2006 - 1st round (23rd overall) by the Washington Capitals
Bryzgalov: 2000 - 2nd round (44th overall) by the Anaheim Mighty Ducks
Howard: 2003 - 2nd round (64th overall) by the Detroit Red Wings
Neuvirth: 2006 - 2nd round (34th overall) by the Washington Capitals

One interesting thing missing from your list of five...not a single Stanley Cup champion.

[TOCanadafan]

I'm also a disappointed Mason owner, but watching a few games this year, I haven't noticed anything terrible (like we are seeing from Fleury). On quite a few occasions, the Jackets D-zone coverage was atrocious. He would make the first and second stops and still, the puck (and an uncovered opponent) would be in sniper alley.
I re-read the "School of Block" pre-season report on him just now, and Goldman indicated that rebound control is a weakness of his (as well as his mental game). I think the combination of weak rebound control and a rather weak CBJ D-core might be doing him in.

[Steffen]

I think fantasy owners should have shorter leashes on goalies this year, to reflect the depressed market for them in the NHL.

With NHL teams generally more willing to make changes in net, rather than signing UFA G's to big deals, the predictability of fantasy stats from G's has gone down overall.

I had kept Steve Mason from last year, but I finally traded him on Oct 26. It's likely too late to get the same value right now, so I'd wait it out and maybe find ways to work him into deals involving other players... (My Mason trade ended up being a 4 for 4 deal.)

Hope this helps.

[DuklaNation]

If you watch some of his games, his rebound control is awful. Also, he tends to let in softies and early period goals. This tells me his biggest weakness is concentration. Not focused in the game. Perhaps its due to a sub-par team. Maybe he needs to be in a more pressure enviornment. Some guys need a kick in the ass, not a pat on the shoulder. The defensive zone coverage for Columbus is really bad which doesnt help. That is a reflection of the coach.

Re: splits by month for Mason's 08-09 season. I just picked 1 goalie by random, Brodeur. If you look at his splits by month for 09-10 season, its not much different than Mason's 08-09. Every goalie, even through a good season, has ups & downs. I really question the validity of that kind of analysis. Not saying the conclusion is wrong, just that the method really is not reliable.

[shook81]

Re: splits by month for Mason's 08-09 season. I just picked 1 goalie by random, Brodeur. If you look at his splits by month for 09-10 season, its not much different than Mason's 08-09. Every goalie, even through a good season, has ups & downs. I really question the validity of that kind of analysis. Not saying the conclusion is wrong, just that the method really is not reliable.

Hahaha...you do realize that you chose, at random, arguably the most consistent goalie in fantasy hockey history. Brodeur has played in 18 NHL seasons, is a known quantity, and already has a spot in the hockey hall of fame. Brodeur's splits indicate that he is consistently good. Mason's small sample indicate that he his consistently below-average.

Mason has played all of 14 months in the NHL...that's it, 14 months. The longer he plays the better we can judge his abilities. I was merely illustrating that his last twelve months seem far more indicative of his abilities than the first two...information that is probably helpful for frustrated Mason owners seeking some answers as two why he has been such a disappointment in the past two seasons.