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Thread: Hart trophy

  1. #16
    repenttokyo's Avatar
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    Default Re:Hart trophy

    for sure, he is the offensive catalyst that allows everyone on that team to shine.

  2. #17
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    Default Re:Hart trophy

    No way. Crosby is great. He\'s damn great, but Pittsburgh would\'ve had as good (if not better) of a chance at getting to the playoffs without him, as Vancouver had making it to the playoffs without Luongo.

    Pitt still had 2 centers that were picked in the top five of their respective drafts (not including crosby), one of the best scoring defenses in the league, and a goalie that would\'ve done just as well whether crosby was there or not (last I checked crosby isn\'t known for his defensive impact).

    Vancouver had the sedins, and an aging marcus naslund that has digressed over the last three years... No big name defenders, and no decent goalies in their system to back up and average goalie. Lets take a look at another team that was in a similar spot as vancouver this season...

    Los Angeles. Decent defenders, average goalies, and 3 or 4 guys that put up 60+ points. They were last in the West. LAST. What makes you think that without Luongo this Vancouver team would have ANY chance at making the playoffs? That is just crazy. They also had a new coach, and a new system to learn.

    Pittsburgh has a great coach that led half of the youngsters to the AHL championship a couple years back...

    Crosby is the catalyst, but without him, Malkin would be the catalyst... Pitt has way more depth at center than vancouver had or possibly could\'ve had at goalie...

    Luongo is without a doubt more important to the canucks than crosby was to the penguins. If crosby was such a force for the penguins, tell me how they got knocked out of the playoffs, while the canucks are still in it with a total of 20 goals for in 11 playoff games?
    12 Team Dynasty League w/ Salary Cap (Updated: 3/23/2011)
    (CBS Sports Commissioner's League)
    Maximum Salary Cap: 70.5 million
    Roster Limit(s):
    Total: 23 + 2 available IR slot
    Active: C, C, C, W, W, W, W, D, D, D, D, G, G
    23 + 1 Man Roster (69.62 million) - 17 Keepers
    - Crosby (IR), Carter, Tavares, Duchene, Anisimov, Desharnais
    - Ovechkin, Giroux, Downie, Hall (LTIR), Tanguay, Samuelsson, Whitney, Justin Williams, Zuccarello
    - Green, Phaneuf, Doughty, Letang, Carlson, Karlsson
    - Price, Halak, Neuvirth, Varlamov
    Scoring Setup: W, L, GA, Saves, SO
    G, A, PIM, PPG, PPA, SHG, SHA, SOG, GWG, HT, FOW

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    Default Re:Hart trophy

    I agree, in the playoffs Luongo has been everything for his team. Even though Crosby played with a broken foot, still no comparison. And Brodeur/Luongo probably outweigh him for the award.

    I think we disagree in terms of degree though. I do think the Canucks would have made the playoffs with a good but not superstar goalie, as would the Pens (probably). Crosby was the glue that held their offense together, but Malkin might have stepped in enough to make it work.

    Still, I feel that the bar must be higher for goalies, or the award will go to a goaltender every season. As stated by someone else (edit: it was reeveta), it\'s the nature of the position.

    Post edited by: Thieving Giraffe, at: 2007/05/03 00:32
    T.G.

  4. #19
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    Default Re:Hart trophy

    lanky522 wrote:
    Luongo is without a doubt more important to the canucks than crosby was to the penguins. If crosby was such a force for the penguins, tell me how they got knocked out of the playoffs, while the canucks are still in it with a total of 20 goals for in 11 playoff games?
    vancouver didn\'t have to play ottawa in the first round, they had to play dallas. that is why they are still in the playoffs. ottawa would have done to vancouver what anaheim is currently doing to vancouver, and they would not have made it past the first round.


    in any case, i still feel that crosby is the most important part of the penguins team and his presence changes the attitudes and confidence of the rest of the young kids on the penguins in ways malkin would not have been able to do in his first season. Also, Malkin did not have a good playoff while Crosby showed great heart.

  5. #20
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    Default Re:Hart trophy

    You\'re right, it is very difficult to compare Vancouver\'s playoff progress to Pittsburgh\'s, not only because they played different teams, but also because the teams they played had COMPLETELY contrasting styles...

    I still think it\'s somewhat easier to see Luongo\'s impact since he led the \'nucks to a VERY difficult division title this year (in his first season with them) while crosby has gotten 100+ points for two years now, but this year was the year they made it to the playoffs. If all it took is crosby playing like a maniac and putting up large sums of points, why didn\'t the pens make it to the playoffs last year on the back of crosby\'s 102 point season?

    I think if there\'s anyone on the pens that made an impact on the pens run this season, it\'d be fleury. His improved play (and the addition of Malkin and Staal) are the only differences between this season and last. Crosby\'s extra 18 points didn\'t make Pitt THAT much better this year...

    I suppose it might be necessary to just agree to disagree... I think that we (like the people that actually vote) have our favorites for the awards and are not likely to be swayed by other people\'s opinions... We can keep going back and forth, but I don\'t think that crosby\'s supporters will suddenly say, \"you know you\'re right, luongo should win it\" and vice versa.

    EDIT:
    I also do agree that goaltenders are the most important aspect of a team. This therefore gives them an advantage over other players for the mvp title, but the way I see it, MVP is MVP... if it so happens that the mvp is a goalie every season, so be it. I would much prefer to see a goaltender get it every year than see the position neglected for the award.

    Post edited by: lanky522, at: 2007/05/03 11:23
    12 Team Dynasty League w/ Salary Cap (Updated: 3/23/2011)
    (CBS Sports Commissioner's League)
    Maximum Salary Cap: 70.5 million
    Roster Limit(s):
    Total: 23 + 2 available IR slot
    Active: C, C, C, W, W, W, W, D, D, D, D, G, G
    23 + 1 Man Roster (69.62 million) - 17 Keepers
    - Crosby (IR), Carter, Tavares, Duchene, Anisimov, Desharnais
    - Ovechkin, Giroux, Downie, Hall (LTIR), Tanguay, Samuelsson, Whitney, Justin Williams, Zuccarello
    - Green, Phaneuf, Doughty, Letang, Carlson, Karlsson
    - Price, Halak, Neuvirth, Varlamov
    Scoring Setup: W, L, GA, Saves, SO
    G, A, PIM, PPG, PPA, SHG, SHA, SOG, GWG, HT, FOW

  6. #21
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    Default Re:Hart trophy

    This is a tough one,I can\'t even remember when it was ever this tough to pick a clear cut winner. All three are worthy. Without these players none of these teams would have made the playoffs. Vancouver and Pittsburgh both turned around two horrible seasons to a pretty good season. But why doesn\'t Brodeur deserve it? Just because NJ has been to the playoffs lots? Just because NJ has won their 3 cups (1995,2000,2003)? I think it could go to any one of these gentlemen. Hey atleast we will have another MVP from CANADA. I think Crosby and Luongo will be fighting for this trophy for a few years to come..

    I just don\'t understand why people say Luongo is more valuable to Vancouver then Brodeur is to New Jersey? And you can\'t take anything away from Sid, he was just remarkable this season. Like I said this is tough, I don\'t even know who I would vote for. If I was to vote today I would say Crosby because the two goalies cancel each other out. HA!!
    Zorro says "vote for Dobber"
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