Comish Dynasty Rules Discussion 2010

[NordiqueFan]

Grain of salt noted!

A few more comments from me (sorry i said i would chime in as things came to mind)
- I am still on the fence about a Farm system, part of the skill in this league is managing your roster with proper youth and pro players. Do you take the chance and load up with pro's or build around youth and risk your standing in the league? Finding the right mix is what makes this league what it is. Having a depth young player step up with a big year is a great reward, having a top prospect stay as only a prospect hurts, but it is all part of managing your roster.

maybe but the draft pick at the for the moment worth nearly nothing for round 3, 4, 5 since we don't have enough space to wait after a prospect to develop (maybe one or two but cannot take a chance on a goalie prospect in the 4th round...

[Chinny]

maybe but the draft pick at the for the moment worth nearly nothing for round 3, 4, 5 since we don't have enough space to wait after a prospect to develop (maybe one or two but cannot take a chance on a goalie prospect in the 4th round...

Yes i fully agree with that, the only pick that interest me are 1st rounders, and i don't ever need more than 1 of those per year.

[bctopdawg]

I agree with most proposed changes (9F, Fantrax is fine with me, moving the deadline, playoffs, ect.)

However not big on reducing the Pro Roster. I suggest adding a small farm roster and keeping the PRO roster count as is

Bleedblue

[ultrawhiteness]

first off, welcome Dean to the gongshow! glad to see your name added to the roster here.

I agree with most proposed changes (9F, Fantrax is fine with me, moving the deadline, playoffs, ect.)

However not big on reducing the Pro Roster. I suggest adding a small farm roster and keeping the PRO roster count as is

Bleedblue

yeah, this farm team one seems to have the most divergent opinions. i'm with chinny and others who have said that part of the challenge is deciding how many pros vs prospects you carry. different strategies, and all that.

i'm also not crazy about anything that would require me to keep track of my player's ages or career games played (however one would want to distinguish "farm players"). perhaps fantrax would make this easy; i don't know.

again, the "floating roster" appeals to me most. having the extra spots during the season:

1. makes the 5-round draft more important.
2. doesn't directly affect competitiveness, as you still have to stay under the 82 max games per active slot.
3. may encourage trading as you would have more non-active guys on your team that you could freely move without hurting your team's performance... if that makes sense.

(a larger bench means i have more guys i can move in a trade without losing GP)

if we kept the cap as is, that would also encourage high-spending teams such as Chinny to carry $5 prospects in those slots, which is basically the purpose of a "farm team" anyway.

awesome discussion guys.

[pensfan]

While I like the idea of having a larger roster to stockpile players, I get a little dizzy at the idea of trying to find a replacement player after an injury with an extra 150 players locked onto rosters. It was hard enough to begin with!!!

[ultrawhiteness]

While I like the idea of having a larger roster to stockpile players, I get a little dizzy at the idea of trying to find a replacement player after an injury with an extra 150 players locked onto rosters. It was hard enough to begin with!!!

haha, excellent point. would just 3 spots or 90 players be easier to digest?

[Chicleteur]

haha, excellent point. would just 3 spots or 90 players be easier to digest?

Yeah 3 spots would probably be enough. I'm sure we all have one or two droppable guys each season ends (retired or not developing well enough players), so this will still make the 5 round draft important.

[Chicleteur]

if we kept the cap as is, that would also encourage high-spending teams such as Chinny to carry $5 prospects in those slots, which is basically the purpose of a "farm team" anyway.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think these 3 to 5 new players should fit under the cap.

[ridinryan44]

Time for the long overdue "State of the League" address. It's been an interesting year to say the least and more owners got out than I had anticipated, but at this moment, we are only one owner short of our full 30 (the second relegation owner).

There are some discussion points that I want to bring forward. I'll take note of the discussion and see if there is enough support to bring forward for a formal vote. Here are the points I came up with:

1. Unless enough of you strongly disagree, we are going to give Fantrax a go instead of using Yahoo. Chinny and I did a little research late last season and I have done some more work over the last few days and it will alleviate many of the problems we had with seeing which players are available and save me a ton and I mean a ton of work. I can notify Fantrax and they will add a player if I request it, hence no more dummy players! I would have to manually enter our salaries or use their formula (they say it is based on the categories used, but don't give anymore info). Imagine everyone being able to see all three Tiers!? Fantrax separates the scoring by Tier and you can even see what the league would look like if all 30 teams were compared, outstanding! No more using the forum to post a pick up!

2. One of our owners gave me a simple suggestion and I think it warrants some serious consideration. He suggested going to 9 forwards instead of 3 C, 3 RW, 3LW. The rationale being that many (most) of us are only one or two deep at each of these positions (some of you bastards in Tier 1 seem to be exempt!!), making it difficult to trade for a certain position without weakening another. I think consolidating the forwards will potentially lead to more trading opportunities. No more complaining about wacky Yahoo positions or waiting for Yahoo to give obvious position eligibility.

3. Lower Free Agent Pickups (FAP's) from 40 to 25. Last year, only three teams made 20 or more free agent transactions with the top guy (Great Whites) making 24 pick ups. Nine teams made no free agent pick ups (5 in Tier 3). Dropping this number to a more realistic level should also add an element of strategy.

4. Is there any interest in changing the playoffs from points based scoring to roto (like we use in the regular season)? The biggest reason I went with points only vice roto for the playoffs was to keep the scoring simple. Heading into the final game, it would be nice to know that if your guy records two points and you were only one point back, you win. Roto scoring can be complicated in that you don't always know who wins until you run the numbers. That said, I will not stand in the way if the majority want to go with roto for the playoffs. Arguments for or against? Let's hear them.

5. If we use Fantrax, we will need to set a new trading deadline. It should be after the NHL trading deadline, but before the end of the season. Maybe a set period of time after the NHL deadline (one week, two weeks, whatever) or we could set a hard date, say the end of March (is that too close to the end of the season)?

6. Minor change, but I thought maybe lengthening the time dropped players are on waivers from two to three days. Not sure it makes a difference, but with everyone seemingly busier and busier, it might help a little. Unless there are a number of objections or reasons why not, I'll ramrod this one through without a vote.

7. I've often thought of having a farm team option and if we go with Fantrax, they have a "Minor League" set up that we can use for this purpose.

- I would recommend lowering our "Major League" rosters from 25 to 20 (9F or 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 4D, 1U, 1G and 5 bench/reserve players)
- Implement a five player Minor League team that expands to a maximum of 10 at the five round draft
- At the conclusion of the playoffs, everyone must cut down to 20 roster players and a maximum of 5 Minor League players. That will allow everyone to draft their five players (if they choose) and all the drops will be available at the five round draft

One question is would the players on your Minor League roster count against the salary cap? Also, we would have the option of setting an age limit (I suggest 23 or 25 years old if we use age at all?) and/or a regular season games played limit (up to 200 gp). If this idea is supported, I would suggest that we go with a higher tolerance level (25 years old and/or 100 games?) so that we have more flexibility to send guys to the minors.

8. Lastly and maybe the most controversial is something I'm sure will need much discussion and may get some heated arguments!! With Fantrax, we have a myriad (hey I could have used plethora!) of new categories if we so choose. Currently we have six categories for 14 skaters and three categories for a single goalie, making the goalie an extremely (even that's an understatement) important figure on your fantasy team. I think we could add 1-3 categories for F/D; Time on Ice (TOI), Blocked Shots and Hits are all relevant stats that would also increase the number of useful players. Add none, one, two or all three? Yes I am aware that this would significantly change the dynamic of the pool and I don't suggest this lightly, but I really think it could improve the competitiveness of our league.

I realize that this is a lot to digest. I welcome all comments and if you have any ideas to better the league, now is the time to bring them up. If there is enough support for an idea, I'll put it to a vote. The rules state that we need 16 votes to make changes, but for #8 (adding categories) I would like to see at least 75% (23 votes) support if this is to move forward.

EDIT1 - Deleted possibility of using Fantrax generated salary. We will continue to use Chinny's $

1. Fantrax - cool... looks interesting!

2.I prefer positions.... more challenging, more "realistic". Yea, it can be difficult, but changing to FW's makes it reaaaaaally simple, in comparison. I like it the way it is.

3. Don't mind the number of FA pickups.... same rules for everyone means no advantage/disadvantage... fine with it either way.

4.I like keeping it simple.... large pools make more complicated rules/scoring, well, more complicated.... not for me, but whoever has to deal with it. Keeping it the same all across the board makes the most sense to me.

5.We use 1 week after NHL trade deadline in our keeper league... works great for us.

6.I like the idea of a bit more time for everyone to see a dropped player.... 3 days sounds great to me!

7.I don't prefer designated roster spots to an "open" roster spot. If I have the room, I'd like to be able to carry any player that helps my team the most.... if I had to choose between less roster spots or a minor league roster, though, I would go with the minor league roster.
I say no to cap, although I couldn't see it affecting it too much as 5 bucks isn't too bad.... so I wouldn't be dead set against it.

8.The more cat's we have, the harder it is to build your team.... I like what we have going.. enough cat's to keep it interesting, not too many to force your hand in to trading. It's hard enough to trade with roster spots the way it is (even though I like the way it's set up) but I wouldn't want it to be any harder.

Thanks for all the hard work commish!!!!

[mapletreemarty]

Hey Guys...

1.) I have no problems with switching to Fantrax, however I know this year for picking up FA's we couldn't pick them up if they weren't in yahoo so that people aren't snaking rookies part way through the season because they're having a breakout year in junior or NCAA blah blah blah... so now for next year I guess if they're not in Fantrax than the same rule applies I imagine?? I remember Russ you saying that if you ask them to put someone in, they will so that you have no longer dummy players... however if someone decides to drop a prospect that wouldn't have been in the system if we didn't add them ourselves than is he fair game as a FA pick up by another team, or does that drop go back into the pool for the 5 round entry draft in August (or whenever we do it)??

2. Keep it at positions... making F's just solves everyone's problems up front, and takes away the fun and the challenge especially when working on trades or what not ( I would know... I've been trying to get another RW for a year now haha)

3. FA Pickups, seems logical to drop down, the lower we go, the more strategy will be involved.

4. I like how the pool is scoring only in the playoffs, it makes things a little more interesting I find in that the multi category playoff guys that everyone covets so much during the regular season aren't as valuable in the playoffs, and a late run from someone like V.Leino can bump you up a few draft positions.

5. Trade deadline should be between 1-2 weeks after the NHL trade deadline.

6. More time sounds fine to me, whatever we decide I don't think it'll make much of a difference anyways.

7. I like the farm idea, getting some extra spots, however I find it difficult to implement at the end of the year, teams have traded away draft picks figuring perhaps they won't use them knowing their roster limit of 25 etc. I have plenty of 3rd round picks so i would be fine, but if i knew we were going to do this farm idea I probably wouldn't have dealt away a 2nd rd. pick for E. Christensen and a 3rd :P And any other picks I may have moved. Just saying that I could see how some people may have an issue with the farm idea, and it's justified if that's how they feel about it.

8. More categories... it definately changes the way you start to value players, and gives players without much value before, more value, however teams have been building teams around a specific statistical set and than to throw something in like Hits and Blocked Shots may just make things a little wacky.... I wouldn't be opposed to adding one category per year perhaps, but not 2-3 ... I think it would change things to drastically and too quickly. I'm not opposed to de-valuing goalies a little.

Thanks for all your hard work Russ!!

[Nehithaw]

Here are my thoughts on the proposals:

1) I'm fine with Fantrax - whatever makes it easier for the admin team.

2) 9 F's would probably benefit me nicely but I have to say that it is an interesting challenge using 3 LW's, 3 RW's and 3 C's. Aside from that, many of us traded away some players to fix weaknesses on our rosters and we gave up some strength in other areas to strengthen our weakspots.

3) I'm ok with lowering the FA pick-ups.

4) I think that the current system for playoffs is fine. We have to have some sort of stability some time. We switched it up this year - I don't think we should keep changing how we do the playoffs.

5) I'm ok with whatever trading deadline you guys pick.

6) Same thing here, whatever you guys think regarding waivers.

7) Here are my opinions on this matter regarding our roster 'make-up':

I think that we should stay with the 25 roster spots that we currently use PLUS some spots (to be determined) for minors. IMO, Everyone should have equal spots for competing now and equal spots for developing players. We shouldn't have to choose between keeping roster spots for prospects not in the NHL and NHL players that will help us (to varying degrees). As it is, we are forced to drop some very good prospects if we want to compete/avoid relegation. I've even dropped my 1st round pick from last year (Peter Holland) because I was forced to compete to avoid relegation in my tier. As interesting as it may be to have to choose between keeping prospects or picking up FA's I think it would be more equal across the board if we didn't have to choose between the two. Everyone should be allowed to keep their prospects and free agents too if they want to.

8) I'm of the opinion that we've built our teams to the categories we use now so we might as well stay with it. There is nothing wrong with it, so why change it? Again, we've made trades to fix weak areas on our rosters, so adding more categories would throw a wrench into the plans we made. To give you an example: I traded John Carlson - D - WSH for Jonathan Bernier - G- LAK at the end of the season. I did the trade because goalies are extremely important in our league - even though Carlson has a bright future as possibly one of the best offensive defenseman in the league.

[Nehithaw]

<Crickets, Crickets, Crickets>

[The Comish]

<Crickets, Crickets, Crickets>

Yeah, yeah!

Really swamped with work (added responsibilities...same pay, longer hours) and trying to coordinate my holiday planning over the last few weeks. Plus I found out I may be away for work for the entire month of August - I am certain I will have internet access though, so I don't anticipate any issues with our league.

I haven't forgotten about the rules discussion and it is next on my priority list. I don't think we'll see very much change, most of what I brought up was to stir up discussion.

More to follow, but keep in mind it is almost July and many of us will be heading out at differing times for vacations.

[The Comish]

Time for the long overdue "State of the League" address. It's been an interesting year to say the least and more owners got out than I had anticipated, but at this moment, we are only one owner short of our full 30 (the second relegation owner).

There are some discussion points that I want to bring forward. I'll take note of the discussion and see if there is enough support to bring forward for a formal vote. Here are the points I came up with:

1. Unless enough of you strongly disagree, we are going to give Fantrax a go instead of using Yahoo. Chinny and I did a little research late last season and I have done some more work over the last few days and it will alleviate many of the problems we had with seeing which players are available and save me a ton and I mean a ton of work. I can notify Fantrax and they will add a player if I request it, hence no more dummy players! I would have to manually enter our salaries or use their formula (they say it is based on the categories used, but don't give anymore info). Imagine everyone being able to see all three Tiers!? Fantrax separates the scoring by Tier and you can even see what the league would look like if all 30 teams were compared, outstanding! No more using the forum to post a pick up!

2. One of our owners gave me a simple suggestion and I think it warrants some serious consideration. He suggested going to 9 forwards instead of 3 C, 3 RW, 3LW. The rationale being that many (most) of us are only one or two deep at each of these positions (some of you bastards in Tier 1 seem to be exempt!!), making it difficult to trade for a certain position without weakening another. I think consolidating the forwards will potentially lead to more trading opportunities. No more complaining about wacky Yahoo positions or waiting for Yahoo to give obvious position eligibility.

3. Lower Free Agent Pickups (FAP's) from 40 to 25. Last year, only three teams made 20 or more free agent transactions with the top guy (Great Whites) making 24 pick ups. Nine teams made no free agent pick ups (5 in Tier 3). Dropping this number to a more realistic level should also add an element of strategy.

4. Is there any interest in changing the playoffs from points based scoring to roto (like we use in the regular season)? The biggest reason I went with points only vice roto for the playoffs was to keep the scoring simple. Heading into the final game, it would be nice to know that if your guy records two points and you were only one point back, you win. Roto scoring can be complicated in that you don't always know who wins until you run the numbers. That said, I will not stand in the way if the majority want to go with roto for the playoffs. Arguments for or against? Let's hear them.

5. If we use Fantrax, we will need to set a new trading deadline. It should be after the NHL trading deadline, but before the end of the season. Maybe a set period of time after the NHL deadline (one week, two weeks, whatever) or we could set a hard date, say the end of March (is that too close to the end of the season)?

6. Minor change, but I thought maybe lengthening the time dropped players are on waivers from two to three days. Not sure it makes a difference, but with everyone seemingly busier and busier, it might help a little. Unless there are a number of objections or reasons why not, I'll ramrod this one through without a vote.

7. I've often thought of having a farm team option and if we go with Fantrax, they have a "Minor League" set up that we can use for this purpose.

- I would recommend lowering our "Major League" rosters from 25 to 20 (9F or 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 4D, 1U, 1G and 5 bench/reserve players)
- Implement a five player Minor League team that expands to a maximum of 10 at the five round draft
- At the conclusion of the playoffs, everyone must cut down to 20 roster players and a maximum of 5 Minor League players. That will allow everyone to draft their five players (if they choose) and all the drops will be available at the five round draft

One question is would the players on your Minor League roster count against the salary cap? Also, we would have the option of setting an age limit (I suggest 23 or 25 years old if we use age at all?) and/or a regular season games played limit (up to 200 gp). If this idea is supported, I would suggest that we go with a higher tolerance level (25 years old and/or 100 games?) so that we have more flexibility to send guys to the minors.

8. Lastly and maybe the most controversial is something I'm sure will need much discussion and may get some heated arguments!! With Fantrax, we have a myriad (hey I could have used plethora!) of new categories if we so choose. Currently we have six categories for 14 skaters and three categories for a single goalie, making the goalie an extremely (even that's an understatement) important figure on your fantasy team. I think we could add 1-3 categories for F/D; Time on Ice (TOI), Blocked Shots and Hits are all relevant stats that would also increase the number of useful players. Add none, one, two or all three? Yes I am aware that this would significantly change the dynamic of the pool and I don't suggest this lightly, but I really think it could improve the competitiveness of our league.

I realize that this is a lot to digest. I welcome all comments and if you have any ideas to better the league, now is the time to bring them up. If there is enough support for an idea, I'll put it to a vote. The rules state that we need 16 votes to make changes, but for #8 (adding categories) I would like to see at least 75% (23 votes) support if this is to move forward.

EDIT1 - Deleted possibility of using Fantrax generated salary. We will continue to use Chinny's $

1. Fantrax it is. No more dummy players. If the player is not in Fantrax, you cannot pick them up.

2. I just didn't see enough support for 9F vs 3L, 3C, 3R. I'm not even putting this to a poll, we will continue with 3L, 3C and 3R.

3. Free Agent Pick ups are lowered from 40 to 25.

4. Playoffs will stay Points (not using roto), again, didn't see enough support for changing.

5. New trading deadline will be 2 weeks after the NHL trading deadline (or as close as we can get it in Fantrax). Many other pools have their trading deadlines one week after the NHL deadline. This will help alleviate any conflicts.

6. Waivers are increased from 2 days to 3 days.

7. No Farm Team, but rosters will increase from 25 to 30 at the five round draft. All teams will have to cut down to 25 max (incl IR) at the conclusion of the playoffs. Cap will remain at $1000.

8. No new categories.

Like I said earlier, I didn't anticipate many changes, I only wanted to bring up some of these proposals to spur discussion.

If there are any significant issues anyone disagrees with, please email me instead of posting it here. Dirty laundry, etc.

Thanks guys, looking forward to conducting our five round draft soon!

[Chicleteur]

Thanks for the update Russ! I'm fine with all the changes and really like the increase from 25 to 30 players after for the regular season. That give more room to sit on a prospect or get some help in case of an injury.

Any idea when the draft will take place?

Thanks again for all your effort!