DailyFaceoff.com stealing from LeftWingLock!

[Dobber]

Using my conclusions and research would be stealing. Using links I found and posted would be okay. Doing it 10 times a day for 100 days in a row... is not.
So when is it okay? Twice a day for 50 days in a row? Three times a day for 10 days in a row? See what I'm saying?
The line is somewhere... I would say that if you do it on consecutive days and it's four or five links or more, then you have to give props. Such a gray area...

If DFO gave credit to LWL all this time, would it then be okay? Again, I have to wonder. Glad I'm not involved

[Dobber]

Ben - you're still my guy. Sentium too. So what happens when an irrestitable force hits an immovable object? Two of my most emotional members clashing...all I can do is hope Sentium accepts Ben's semi-sarcastic apology and we move on. Together. As one. And sing Koombaya.

[Dobber]

PS - I had never heard of Daily Face-off before. So all this hubbub did was win them more visits and more notice. Man, I should do something REALLY contraversial and get this kind of attention. Any suggestions?

[ultrawhiteness]

great quote Shoeless. i'm not sure what makes me sadder... the quote itself, or the fact that apparently ben10 completely missed the point.

DFO exposes themselves a bit with the laziness... LWL could get a call wrong accidentally or intentionally, and if DFO just copies that link, they won't know that they are supplying their users with bad information.

dobber: yes, in my mind that would be OK. it would allow a smart reader to start thinking about how this other site was getting the scoop first... and maybe i'd be smarter going to that site for that bit of information if i really cared that much.

i figured that out a while ago and stopped using DFO for goalie starts, instead switching to LWL.

now i'm wondering if they do the same thing for daily lineups, and if i should try to find the site they're (possibly) ripping that info off of.

[Dakkster]

Meh. I just resent Ben's attitude. DFO looks nicer and has what LWL has, blah blah blah. Please Ben, follow that thought to the next level. Ask yourself WHY DFO has what LWL has. Exactly, they are stealing intellectual property. If LWL didn't do the work beforehand, it's conceivable that DFO's quality would suffer in one or two areas because of it, because DFO would have to spend time on doing the actual research. Is it really THAT hard for a blogger to give credit where credit is due? Your "whatever" attitude is not helping.

Bottom line is that I have a problem with people who display a lack of thought or common sense. If everyone reasons like Ben, the quality of the services suffer in the grand scheme of things because he supports the unprofessional and lazy site and long term, if DFO beats LWL so that LWL needs to shut down, then the quality of DFO will go down. They have a high quality right now because they are stealing the work of others. If they are stealing goalie start info, who knows what else they are stealing? And yes, it is stealing. It is theft of time and effort. It is dishonest and it is HIGHLY unprofessional, and defending that apparently childish and illiterate douchebag lands you low on my list. That's just the way it is.

[ultrawhiteness]

If they are stealing goalie start info, who knows what else they are stealing?

ah yes, this is what i meant to say. bingo.

[VintageVibe]

Bottom line is both sites are making next to nothing in terms of $$$. It's not like they are making hundreds of thousands of dollars. Its not like they are offering premium online services. Both sites offer secondary information on one of the more unpopular premier sports in North America. Its not like I always "support the unprofessional and lazy site". I visit the site for 10 seconds once or twice a week. Why would I pay xx amount of dollars to access a site I use 20 times a year for, maybe, a total of 5 minutes/year. Ridiculous, I say.

If someone was taking Dobber's guides, copying them, and distributing them for free I would not accept it. I've paid for his guides 3 years in a row now because I spend hours reading over them, enjoy reading them, and visit his site, which he allows me to do for free, everyday for hours. Dobber probably makes a good buck off of them as he should- they're usually the size of a novel and are fun to read.

And Sentium, if Im defending anyone its the consumer. I have no problem paying for something that I can have fun doing/reading for hours on end but I don't understand why someone would pay for something as measly as access to NHL goalie starts? Things like that SHOULD be free in the first place! It's their fault for coming up with such a poor business plan in the first place. What point did I miss? (and please don't be sad on my account UW)... If you want to be a successful businessman in life you cannot be nice. Thats business101. To be a businessman is to be ruthless. Many rich men are where they are now because the "borrowed"/stole ideas and put them to good use. Its a dog eat dog world. Besides, how can anyone expect to make money off of posting the names of starting goaltenders online? Obviously people are going find out the starting goalies for free someplace else.

Blahblahblahblah... I can go on and on about how stupid this is...

Maybe Im sporting a minority opinion here but I can tell you that Im not alone on this one.

[Mervillian]

From his comments.

Matt Bennett Says:
April 6th, 2010 at 12:28 pm
I’m not sure you guys get this.

This has happened for no more than .05% – that’s half a percent – of the games played. More often than not we have starters first but if we aren’t looking in the right places, we like to be made aware. When people post links in our comments, a lot of them get the links from other goalie sites as well.

Actually that is 1/20th of a percent......so how much do you copy buddy, you can't even get it straight.

[angus]

man, i should do something really contraversial and get this kind of attention. Any suggestions?

fake trade rumors!

[Sin Bin]

Well said!

I feel I need to clarify that I don't actually think its stealing in a technical sense at all... just, as you put it, douchebaggery. And the smug "We're just better" response from the twats just makes it worse.

fake trade rumors!

You would have to credit eklund then.(e5)

[Katharsis]

And Sentium, if Im defending anyone its the consumer. I have no problem paying for something that I can have fun doing/reading for hours on end but I don't understand why someone would pay for something as measly as access to NHL goalie starts? Things like that SHOULD be free in the first place! It's their fault for coming up with such a poor business plan in the first place. What point did I miss? (and please don't be sad on my account UW)... If you want to be a successful businessman in life you cannot be nice. Thats business101. To be a businessman is to be ruthless. Many rich men are where they are now because the "borrowed"/stole ideas and put them to good use. Its a dog eat dog world. Besides, how can anyone expect to make money off of posting the names of starting goaltenders online? Obviously people are going find out the starting goalies for free someplace else.

Not sure if this is what you meant, but just to clarify, neither of these sites charges for goalie info - you're thinking of goaliepost, and I completely agree that its pay model is silly when there so many other places you can get the main info for free.

[Sovereign]

Sorry to say guys but as much as you don't like the reply it is reality, and good business sense. Now if LWL had figured out a way to patent the idea, then you'd have something. But this goes on every day in media.

Do you think that Newspapers have sole rights if they discover the story? Guess what? Of you do your dreaming. You can look at this as a case of LWL "getting the scoop" before DFO, but if DFO has a wider circulation, then their coverage will carry the day.

That's just how it is.

Personally, I have never visited either site, so I couldn't care less. And neither will most of the readers. Goalie-whatever.com made a presumably dumb move by going to a paid media, instead of figuring a way to beef up site-hits and advertising revenue. Mind you, if their overall revenue is up and resulting circulation is down, then it was a smart business move. Bottom line is everything.

DFO will do the work themselves or find some else to copy from if LWL does not figure a way to grab a better market share and not dry up. As for stealing web site criteria, so much of it is done in fantasy circles it is not funny. And very few care. Reality is we all want the information accurately, promptly, and for free. And we will go to whichever site provides it.

Hell (and no offense to the big cheese) but "Dobber's Ramblings" are a direct example. He reads the information from other sites and presents it with his own twist. In his defense he gives credit. So the idea is the same. DFO only need provide a link to LWL, and the argument is moot.

I doubt either site's proprietors have the capital to hear it out in a courtroom, or the desire.
So it gets relegated to Blog-o-shpere bitching.

[VintageVibe]

Not sure if this is what you meant, but just to clarify, neither of these sites charges for goalie info - you're thinking of goaliepost, and I completely agree that its pay model is silly when there so many other places you can get the main info for free.

Ah yeah I mixed up the two. Thanks Katharsis.

[LeMatt]

If they are stealing goalie start info, who knows what else they are stealing? And yes, it is stealing. It is theft of time and effort. It is dishonest and it is HIGHLY unprofessional, and defending that apparently childish and illiterate douchebag lands you low on my list. That's just the way it is.

Makes you wonder if they are stealing info found on this site. Wouldn't be surprised if they were using the lino combos tool to fill out their "line-up" section.

[Scribe]

PS - I had never heard of Daily Face-off before. So all this hubbub did was win them more visits and more notice. Man, I should do something REALLY contraversial and get this kind of attention. Any suggestions?

Start intentionally misspelling player names in the Daily Ramblings and get PETA after you.