beware of your Commissioner!!

[fulcrum]

ahhhhh. Man I go offline for half a day and see this dirty laundry. Ok 2 sides to every story isnt there? Rgarrow I gave you the reasons for dismissal, you chose to fabricate things and change them around as to how you see fit. Im sorry you are mad about the situation at hand, and the reason for it. You may choose to make the posts here on dobber . As I said you were notified a few times about certain things and you chose to ignore them. I warned you about your constant lack of having your roster legal, multiple times, such as most recently Scheider on IR. You chose to disregard the league rules several times regarding this. You chose to ignore my emails about it, you chose to just play by your rules and do as you want. So yes, you were notified on several occasions.

I dont mind that you wanna use this site as a tool/ means to lash back at me. Guys can form their own opionons of me and can use this attack job as a way to judge me if they want, but all I can say is there are 2 sides to every story friends..2 sides!

I don't honestly care if there are 2 sides, obviously there had to be....I am betting there are 2 sides to the story about the owner you brought on too. Regardless, You made a decision for your league, I assume you believe it was the right one......those things need to be done sometimes......but after reading some of the comments posted here by the choice you assumed to be the correct one.....I would sure be second guessing my judgement if I was you. He couldn't stir the pot fast enough.......

Good Luck with that., I hope it works out. He definately knows his hockey.

[VintageVibe]

Haha. I love the names you guys come up with. You guys are doing your best to bash down on two people who wanted nothing but to liven up a dead league. Im sorry that Im the one that took over your team. I didn't think people who have no direct business with the thread would swarm down on me, let alone Mafia. All he wants to do is reorganize his league. Hes giving you your money back. And your going out of your way to post a mean thread full of nothing but hatred and wanting nothing but vengeance.

Look, I understand your frustration. I can understand how my initial post might've added to your frustration (twas a moment of weakness there... its been a while since I posted anything like that... again, I didn't mean to come off as a douchebag rather explain the scenario, let you know your team is in good hands, and yes, I chose the side that you are against- Im not going to apologize for that (but once Im done satisfying Mafia (sexually of course) perhaps I can come over and give you a personal... apology<-- sorry I couldn't resist going along with one of the uniquely witty jokes hidden in the bowel that is this thread). I wasn't really thinking when I wrote the initial half of that post. For that I apologize. I can understand NorthAmericanPride's slimey post(s) as his posts only come in said form. What I cannot understand is why you don't just forget and move on. You obviously don't think very highly of Mafia so just forget about him, his leagues, and join and enjoy another less serious league. In a few days you will see how silly this thread that you created turned out and realize you waisted your time with it all the while creating a shit storm between respected and non-respected dobberites alike.

As for preaching hatred and ganging up (NorthAmericanPride- last time I checked no one respected you on these forums as you only seem to pop up when it comes to ripping on much better people than yourself (aka- everybody)). Im not going to spit back any more words of hatred. That would be too easy, too childish, and too uncalled for. Im just going to leave now and hope you all forgive me for whatever bad I did, but more importantly forgive yourselves for your unnessearily foul language and the negativity you have brought upon the forums within this thread. I know I will think next time before I post and I hope you all do to.

[lanky522]

Sometimes its not about being on everyday but making your presence known everyday by offering trades, posting on the message board, talking on the live chat, etc..

man... since when did fantasy hockey turn into social networking? you want company, goto facebook or myspace. Fantasy hockey is about setting your lines and arranging a winning team. If someone is competitive and not cheating, i don't see a reason to remove them from the league.

I certainly don't see a reason to remove them from the league midseason.

I don't know the specifics of the league and what may have transpired between this GM and the commish, it certainly sucks to have GMs who don't reply to trade requests or emails, etc... but I call MAJOR bullshit on kicking a guy out mid-season (especially if he's first overall!). For better or worse if a GM pays his dues on time he's in for the season, you cant kick him out mid stream just because you dont like how he's not 'active' enough for you, thats some bigtime bullshit IMO

agreed. well said.

I've got huge issues with doing this stuff midseason.

This is one of the weirdest threads I've read in my time here at Dobberhockey.

I've NEVER heard of a guy getting punted from a pool because he didn't spend enough time on the live chat and make enough trade offers.

There certainly should have been more communication from the commish to the allegedly not active enough owner. To kick out a guy who was in first place without warning would be disturbing if I were one of the other owners.

If you wanted a hyper-active hockey pool, then it should have been clear to any new owners exactly what was expected - how much time to spend in the live chat or a trade offer every week as a minimum.

It sounds like you are better off out of this pool. Take your entry fee back and count your blessings.

agreed. straight from the mouth of one of the best league managers out there.

Comish is right though... count your blessings that you didn't waste anymore of your life on this league.

ahhhhh. Man I go offline for half a day and see this dirty laundry. Ok 2 sides to every story isnt there? Rgarrow I gave you the reasons for dismissal, you chose to fabricate things and change them around as to how you see fit. Im sorry you are mad about the situation at hand, and the reason for it. You may choose to make the posts here on dobber . As I said you were notified a few times about certain things and you chose to ignore them. I warned you about your constant lack of having your roster legal, multiple times, such as most recently Scheider on IR. You chose to disregard the league rules several times regarding this. You chose to ignore my emails about it, you chose to just play by your rules and do as you want. So yes, you were notified on several occasions.

I dont mind that you wanna use this site as a tool/ means to lash back at me. Guys can form their own opionons of me and can use this attack job as a way to judge me if they want, but all I can say is there are 2 sides to every story friends..2 sides!

1) In pretty much every format that I've been the commissioner of, there have been certain privileges that you can take away as punishment if a player is in violation of rules.

If not anything else, you could lock his team (not allow him to change his lines as long as schneider is healthy and on the IR). This would cause him to start losing points, and would provoke him to play by the rules.

Bottom line, there are many other, reasonable alternatives to just booting someone from your league.

2) Furthermore, your reasoning doesn't make your case at all. As far as i'm concerned this isn't YOUR league. Just like the NHL isn't GARY BETTMAN's league. You are the figurehead. The representative... Ultimately, the only way that a owner should ever be removed from a league is if ALL of the league managers vote to have him removed. This is not a decision that any ONE person should make. When you personally kick a player out of your league it just plain stinks of personal bias. If the league has to vote on removing managers, bias is pretty much prevented from being a factor in the decision.

I understand that there's a good deal of personal style that goes with running a league, but there are some very common, basic elements. You may think that this move is going to make your league more fun... but i'd imagine you're likely wrong. Democracies are often a lot more fun to be part of than Dictatorships. A dictator's people often learn to hate them if they abuse their power.

3) I was really hoping the original post was complete crap... but i can see here, based on what you write (while some details may have been omitted), what was written in the first post of this thread is actually pretty much true.

I must say, this thread has indeed inspired me to avoid such leagues in the future... well heck... until now, i didn't really even think that there were such situations out there.

To be completely honest, I'd flat out leave the league right now if i were in it. It just seems too much like high school politics to me...

-------

I'm sure all of this sounds very judgmental and possibly even mean... don't get me wrong, i've got no beef with you, but i'd just be very uncomfortable with you as the comish of any league of mine... hope this didn't come off to strong.

[VintageVibe]

How about we just turn up the good and turn down the suck? Im gonna lock this puppy up if thats alright with everybody.

[mister_mcgoo]

First of all Ben, you have a distinct conflict of interest to be locking this thread, you probably should have waited on one of the other mods to do that if at all...seems a little heavy handed to me, esp when the topic is focusing on heavy-handedness .

Furthermore, I actually see no real reason to lock the thread, we heard both sides of the story and people chimed in with their opinions and experience, it was pretty much all on the up and up, no name calling or personal attacks, etc so I'm not sure what the rationale was.

Anyway, I don't want to drag any of this thru the mud all again, I stand by initial position for the most part, tho XMafia I understand your point of view better now and can sympathize with being in that position. Give Lanky's first 2 points a good read and ponder them a bit, he summed it up pretty damn well I think. IMO you gotta run a league like a democracy about 90-95% of the time so that the GMs feel invested in it and not powerless. The message the other GMs are thinking right now that you just sent by kicking this guy out is 'Shit, that could be ME next' and that's not a good scenario.

In my league for example, the rules/GMs/scoring/etc are all locked at season start, a good portion of those rules and tweaks/modifications to them were actually decided by league vote in the preseason. If we were to run into something that was not properly defined or ambiguous mid-season we would once again have a league vote to determine it then. But aside from that we lock everything in and I cannot imagine a scenario short of outright cheating or complete abandonment of a team that would warrant ejection from the league while the season is still ongoing...but assuming there was, it would once again be handled via league vote. As Lanky aptly notes, if you have an errant GM who is ignoring the rules, etc you deal with that with much more subtle punishments (locking their roster is a good start, or if that doesnt do it and you send out multiple warnings, you could manually drop that player forhim....repeat offenses might lose a draft pick even). Point is, you let your GMs police themselves and you'll find they do a remarkable job

[NYR9394]

Good job by Ben of locking up a thread that wasn't going his way. I mean, I have no problem with you personally, but that just looks really bad on your part. Dont use your power and turn this place into HFboards.



Just admit you guys were totally in the wrong and move on. So stupid to kick a guy out because he isnt yappy enough or whatever else. What is this? High school?

[lanky522]

How about we just turn up the good and turn down the suck? Im gonna lock this puppy up if thats alright with everybody.

lol... sort of seems like a biased decision... I certainly question your motives here, when at least 2 admins/mods completely unrelated to the situation in question laid eyes on this thread but decided to leave it open.

i'm not really sure what the harm in this is... as far as i'm concerned it's no different than discussing a commissioner who preformed a controversial veto. there's not really anything wrong with the dialog here imo. sure the name calling was a bit bad early on... but that calmed down, so I'm kind of wondering why it's necessarily to censor the topic.

i'm not going to overturn you... I just probably would have left this open... I personally try to avoid closing (or re-opening) threads where i'm actively involved, because there's an obvious conflict of interest...

just my two cents... as with my previous post regarding commissioning: to each his own.

[butch]

I guess this situation is different because they are playing for money

if randy wasnt taking players off the IR when he was supposed to(not sure what stat server allows this) and ignored emails to ask him to correct it then the commish has a legit concern

other issues like responding to trade offers and being the life of the party on the leagues message board are less important -to me , if a guy is attentive to the dailey/weekly lineups its 75 % of the battle

[fulcrum]

I honestly thought the thread was invaluable to a fantasy hockey commisioner. Yeah it sucks to be a couple guys that may have looked like they were being singled out.
Look at the posters that were attracted:

praba 2441 posts
Dean Youngblood 1499 posts
ddp 1094 posts
BriarPatch 677 posts
NYR9394 7739 posts
mistermcgoo 4275 posts
The Commish 4166 posts
shook 81 811 posts
lockedge 1550 posts
Dennis 4022 1272 posts
lanky 3012 posts

12 people that account for 27500 posts.
I'm not trying to define credibility by posts alone as I know thats not the case, but are these not some of the people you WANT to see posts from on these forums. Thats a wealth of experience to draw from right there.

There are some ugly areas to the posts, but I think its a great read full of invaluable experience from some of the most experienced on the site.

[Shoeless]

From a Dobberhockey forums perspective, I don't think it is ever right to use these forums to launder individual league business. A big boo to RGarrow for doing so.

I am a big fan of simply deleting threads that do this.

Having said that, having an informed debate without making it personal among our users about best practices in commissioning a league or situations that are worth looking at so that we can learn from them is something else entirely and I think we can encourage them.

You took on one of our own in public, RGarrow and I don't like that. You might very well be right and justified in your claims and concerns - but not here.

[lanky522]

From a Dobberhockey forums perspective, I don't think it is ever right to use these forums to launder individual league business. A big boo to RGarrow for doing so.

I am a big fan of simply deleting threads that do this.

Having said that, having an informed debate without making it personal among our users about best practices in commissioning a league or situations that are worth looking at so that we can learn from them is something else entirely and I think we can encourage them.

You took on one of our own in public, RGarrow and I don't like that. You might very well be right and justified in your claims and concerns - but not here.

That's a fair point shoeless.

I'm going to edit the personal information out of any post it appears...

[XMafiaHockeyX]

Ok guys while my name gets slaughtered around here in the mud in this forum yet still today!!, everyone here who has posted an opinion is absoutely free to do so and I can take the heat, but let me just say a couple things here on my behalf if I may.

First off, I have been a fantasy hockey commissioner for many years. I am a very loyal , fair, honest person. Forget fantasy hockey, im talkin just as a person first, im a good guy, which does transfer over to everyday life and yes fantasy sports. I dont hurt people, I dont screw people, I give the benefit of the doubt more times than not. I am patient, I am observant and I do require respect and I give respect back as well..

A situation came about in my league, I ultimately handled it the best way I thought as to handle it. This wasnt a surprise to this owner, no matter what B.S. this owner chooses to say here on a public forum and then everyone just jumps on his bandwagon as im the bad guy here. When not a person on this site except for myself and that owner know what exactly has taken place over the last 4 months. It's easy to fire off posts about what should be done, what wasnt done, what I would do, what I think you should do, what I wouldnt do, what I've done before, what I've seen before etc etc etc etc..

Someone said in one of the posts that I kicked the guy out cause he didnt make posts in the league? ARE YOU FLIPPIN SERIOUS? Come on guys! Anyway, I truly have no clue what else to say, but its pretty sad to see my name get dragged about here like some dead fish...I spend many hours on this forum, posting , reading, interacting , and alot of my interactions are with several of the guys who are blasting me here..

Anyway, Rgarrow your intentions look like they worked, so kudos to you!!

The rest of you, as I like you all, but I gotta say, I think you are misled and misguided here with what YOU THINK may of happend in this league...its easy to judge I suppose, Its easy to fire off comments without really knowing the true actual facts..

I have nothing more to say

[Shoeless]

Take a truckload more than RGarrow's post to have me not valuing you as a fellow member of these forums xMafiaHockeyx - relax!

[Dennis4022]

Take a truckload more than RGarrow's post to have me not valuing you as a fellow member of these forums xMafiaHockeyx - relax!

you can just talk for yourself. A lot of guys were firing posts against him here, and really nobody knew the whole story. At least they didn´t know the other side.

As i mentioned before, there are allways two sides and you need to here both, before you judge a guy.

I´m in 3 league where Mafia is Comish and never had any problems. Well i´m not ignoring any of his email, could be the key to stay in the leagues.

[Dennis4022]

I guess this situation is different because they are playing for money

no we are not playing for money!