Collusion - Yes or no?

[suckerpuncher]

In one of my leagues the following 3 trades happened over the last week between the same 2 teams.

TRADE 1:
Team A gives M. St. Louis
Team B gives M. Straka and M. Naslund

TRADE 2:
Team A gives J. Sakic and M. Brodeur
Team B gives M. Havlat, P. Bergeron, N. Backstrom (G) and M. Fernandez

TRADE 3:
Team A gives M. Havlat
Team B gives J. Staal and D. Zubrus


Do you think it\'s collusion or just a strange coincidence that all trades happended between the 2 teams.
Or you think the each trade or at least the sum of all trades are fair?
And what about the fact that Havlat went back and forth?

And if you think it\'s collusion what should vbe done? Ask for a statement from both members and/or ban both teams and/or undo the trades or something else?

I never was in such a situation before so any help is really appreciated.

[Bighabfan]

If none of the trades are really lopsided (which they don\'t seem to be), then I would not worry too much. Sometimes two teams can get on a roll and keep swapping like that. Also, the Havlat back and forth thing is not anything to be concerned about either - an owner in my league (keeper) has dealt away and re-aquired Jagr at least five times.

[GoJetsGo]

Without knowing a little more about the timing of the trades and the teams circumstances, I would say that there isn\'t really any funny business going on here.

It looks like each team was trying to address there own needs and no trade was really one-sided. Often managers will feel remorse after giving up a player, so it doesn\'t surprise me to see Havlat get traded back. If that trade was after it was announced that Staal would start on Crosby\'s line, I\'m sure that manager said, \"If you want Havlat back, it\'ll cost you Staal.\"

[primeau25]

St. Louis for Straka and Naslund isn\'t lopsided to you?

[narduch]

Doesn\'t look like collusion at all to me.

[narduch]

primeau25 wrote:

St. Louis for Straka and Naslund isn\'t lopsided to you?

Why?

A 90-point player for a 70-point player and a 60-point player.

Sure, its always better to get the better player in a 2 for 1, but its not that bad a deal.

Post edited by: narduch, at: 2007/10/03 16:25

[Chadosaur]

Each of the trades don\'t look to bad to me. In trade #1, it\'s a star forward for two 2nd tier forwards. In trade #2, it\'s a star forward and goaltender for two potential stars (each with their own issues) and two 2nd tier goalies. In trade #3, it\'s a potential star for another potential star (who\'s not as far along) plus a throw-in forward. I wouldn\'t necessarily do any of these deals (although I wouldn\'t mind picking up St. Louis for that price) but that doesn\'t mean they\'re offside.

To sum up the totals:

Team A gives up St. Louis, Sakic, Brodeur
Team B gives up Straka, Naslund, P. Bergeron, Backstrom (G), Fernandez, J. Staal, Zubrus

Without knowing what your scoring system is, whether or not it\'s a keeper pool, etc., it\'s hard to tell who\'s benefiting in what manner. However, if I assumed it was a keeper, Team B is getting some guys that will help him win now at the expense of gutting a chunk of his roster. He\'ll probably have issues with the age of Sakic & Brodeur, but whatever. On the other side, Team A gets younger and gets a bit more future potential in Bergeron, Backstrom and Staal. I can\'t say that\'s necessarily terrible either, because each team is getting something useful.

I\'ve found occasionally that when you start dealing with a GM you get to know his roster a bit more, and other deals may flow. Maybe not in such quick succession, but it happens. The whole Havlat swap is sort of silly, and why Team B didn\'t throw in Staal and Zubrus instead of Havlat on trade #2 is beyond me, but I\'m not going to read anything else into it.

[suckerpuncher]

It\'s a 8 team non-keeper league with the following cats:
Skaters: G, A, P, +/-, PPP, SHP, SOG, PIM
Goalies: W, GAA, SV, SV%, SHO

2 guys asked me to take a closer look on the trades. Mainly because the only 3 trades in the league were between those 2 owners and so the others might got a bit suspicious.

But since trade review is set to league votes and the fact that it\'s only a 8 team league and all 3 trades went through indicates that the majority doesn\'t sees the trades as unfair enough to vote against.

I\'ll ask the two owners involved about the trades and then I\'ll take it from there.

[repenttokyo]

primeau25 wrote:

St. Louis for Straka and Naslund isn\'t lopsided to you?

looks very lopsided to me. 2 lesser point players do not equal a high point producer unless they are filling very specific roles (PIM, D), and neither of those guys are anything special.

[Shoeless]

There is zero in these trades to warrant a review. A bad trade does not constitute collusion. In all three cases one can see some merit in each manager\'s attempt to improve their team - right or wrong by our standards doesn\'t matter.

Duly reviewed, found no collusion and close the books. Next!!

[The Hanson Brothers]

suckerpuncher wrote:

It\'s a 8 team non-keeper league with the following cats:
Skaters: G, A, P, +/-, PPP, SHP, SOG, PIM
Goalies: W, GAA, SV, SV%, SHO

No collusion here. Team B is flat out taking advantage of team A here. In a small pool like you have here, there are probably a lot of undrafted decent players ie the Zubrus\' of the world. What team B is doing is turning waiver fodder into into tier 1 and tier 2 players. Team A thinks they\'re getting a great deal recieving so many dencent players, but really they\'re being used.

[repenttokyo]

you make it sound so dirty. karma for you!

[Shoeless]

The Hanson Brothers wrote:

suckerpuncher wrote:

It\'s a 8 team non-keeper league with the following cats:
Skaters: G, A, P, +/-, PPP, SHP, SOG, PIM
Goalies: W, GAA, SV, SV%, SHO

No collusion here. Team B is flat out taking advantage of team A here. In a small pool like you have here, there are probably a lot of undrafted decent players ie the Zubrus\' of the world. What team B is doing is turning waiver fodder into into tier 1 and tier 2 players. Team A thinks they\'re getting a great deal recieving so many dencent players, but really they\'re being used.

Right on Brothers, Team B knows the game and Team A is his farm system. Others in the league want protection from a sharp operator - not from guys in dishonest dealings. All I would say is too bad - you should have got there first boys!

[suckerpuncher]

Now there is a 4th trade between those 2.

Team A gives Gonchar and Backstrom (G)
Team B gives O\'Neil, Elias and Biron

Once again a player goes back to his original team (Backstrom).
And Team A dropped Zubrus after he acquired him in the previous trade. And Team B picked him up from FA pool right before the 3rd trade.

There\'s something I don\'t like about this situation and it gets more and more fishy in my eyes.

I asked both for a statement but no one answered me so far.

I really feel like locking both teams from trading until they give me some sort of explaination what exactly they intend with those trades.

Or am I overreacting?

[smack]

Well the first 3 trades were ok but with that 4th trade something just isn\'t right. I\'ve been in a keeper league for 4 years and we have guys who traded with each other over 10x a year. But this last trade just doesn\'t seem right. Especially players going back and forth, just weird.
I\'d talk to them about and just see what the hell they\'re thinking. If it looks fishy, and smells fishy,. . . .