Boowmeester in trouble

[repenttokyo]

lanky522 wrote:

he had 88 points over the last two seasons, and played in ALL 164 games. Now how can you tell me that you think that any so called \"drinking problem\" is affecting his game. Before this story came out, would you have watched him on t.v. and thought... \"something\'s wrong with jbo, he\'s not playing like he should be.\" No you wouldn\'t. Therefore, this is a non factor, that shouldn\'t be posted in the NHL discussion area.

how many points did Theo Fleury have before substance abuse drove him from the league? He has had substance abuse problems for a large part of his career and he was able to cover it up and pretend things were normal. Putting pucks in the net does not equal a normal life free of addiction or problems.

lanky522 wrote:

I don\'t know about you all, but the people that I know with \"drinking problems\" would not be able to make it through 164 straight NHL games, much less post 88 points. If he really had alcohol problems, he would have missed a few games in there due to the \"flu\" from drinking too much the night before.

Some alcoholics live their entire lives dependent on alcohol yet succeed in business. Does that change the fact that they are alcoholics, or have a problem? No. Think of it this way - Brian Berard was able to play after losing an eye. Does that mean his missing eye wasn\'t a handicap? No.

lanky522 wrote:

As far as all the proof shows, he\'s a disciplined professional who enjoys the occassional drink.

nothing says \"disciplined professional\" quite like a DUI conviction. :whistle:

lanky522 wrote:

As for someone removing his kharma point, they have just as much right to remove it as you have to give it so it\'s not really right to call whoever did it immature...

agree to disagree on this point

Post edited by: repenttokyo, at: 2007/09/12 17:32

[lanky522]

repent wrote:

how many points did Theo Fleury have before substance abuse drove him from the league? He has had substance abuse problems for a large part of his career and he was able to cover it up and pretend things were normal. Putting pucks in the net does not equal a normal life free of addiction or problems.

I had no problem with fleury at all from a fantasy standpoint. He may not be the best role model for the kids, but substance abuse or not, he produced from a fantasy standpoint. And in the end that\'s what we care about when we post on this site - How the player will do from a fantasy stand point. Obviously you don\'t want a player you own to end up in rehab or anything like that, but really, you\'d probably just drop him and pick up another guy. No big deal from a fantasy point of view.

Some alcoholics live their entire lives dependent on alcohol yet succeed in business. Does that change the fact that they are alcoholics, or have a problem? No. Think of it this way - Brian Berard was able to play after losing an eye. Does that mean his missing eye wasn\'t a handicap? No.

Again. If it doesn\'t affect his fantasy value, why does it matter?

nothing says \"disciplined professional\" quite like a DUI conviction. :whistle:

When I say \"disciplined professional\" I mean that he plays in every game (since 2003), attends every practice (as far as we know), and does a great job when he\'s \"working.\" This event also happened in the offseason, so for all we know he\'s a veagan, tea-toddler, who takes multi vitamins during the actual nhl season. If it happens during the offseason can you really say that he\'s not being professional?

How many 23 year olds do you know that DON\'T have the occassional 2-3 beers? I know tons of people who enjoy a drink in their free time, but their drinking doesn\'t adversely affect the rest of their lives in any fashion. Just because he was drinking and driving in this one incident, doesn\'t mean that we should assume that he has a \"problem\" or that he \"needs help.\" It\'s just a silly suggestion.

Can anyone here honestly say that they\'ve never once in their life been a little bit drunk? How would you feel if someone went online and all but said that you had a drinking problem because of one night when you were on vacation from your job when you got a little bit too drunk?

In the end, this is just a silly debate, because if you chose not to take bouwmeester in your keeper league because you\'re worried about his drinking \"problem\", then I\'ll take him, and he\'ll help me beat you. Just like I would take fleury, and his crazy ass would help me beat you. The fact that he\'s played in all 164 games since the lockout shows me that he\'s a solid guy to count on from an NHL standpoint, and a fantasy standpoint. If you disagree, then you\'re missing out. If he has a drinking problem, my heart goes out to him and his family and I hope he gets help at somepoint, but I\'ll by no means assume that he has a \"drinking problem\" because of an isolated incident when he went to a bar and drove home when he shouldn\'t have in the offseason.

[lanky522]

repent, how do we always get ourselves into these messes...?

I swear, I don\'t think that there\'s one thing that we agree on...

What\'s your favorite pizza topping? Mine\'s pepperoni.

[repenttokyo]

i just used fleury as an example of how someone can seem to be holding their life together when really they are hopelessly caught up in the cycle of addiction and dependence.

lanky522 wrote:

How many 23 year olds do you know that DON\'T have the occassional 2-3 beers? I know tons of people who enjoy a drink in their free time, but their drinking doesn\'t adversely affect the rest of their lives in any fashion. Just because he was drinking and driving in this one incident, doesn\'t mean that we should assume that he has a \"problem\" or that he \"needs help.\" It\'s just a silly suggestion.

setting aside everything else, as just a difference of opinion, which is fine, obviously, I gotta call you out on this.

There is a huge difference between social drinking and driving drunk. I don\'t have a single friend who has a DUI. Driving drunk is a huge killer in my province and it\'s taken very seriously - it\'s a criminal act, with a minimum sentence. DUI indicates you have a problem drinking - period. You drank so much that you got behind the wheel of a machine that could kill people thinking you were in control. It\'s a whole other dimension from having drinks with friends at a hockey game or a party. It\'s not a \"silly suggestion\". When an incident like that happens, you need to look at your life and make a change so that something like that never happens again.

Can anyone here honestly say that they\'ve never once in their life been a little bit drunk? How would you feel if someone went online and all but said that you had a drinking problem because of one night when you were on vacation from your job when you got a little bit too drunk?

Actually, I know it seems like I am just being contrary here, but I\'m 27 and I\'ve never touched a drop of alcohol. I\'m not preachy about it, and I don\'t have an agenda. I just grew up seeing how alcoholism affects a family and decided not to risk falling into the same patterns. This has nothing to do with my opinion on drunk driving or bouwmeester however. I mean, all of my friends drink, all of them, without exception. I went to college, people did crazy drunken things, i think that\'s a normal part of growing up (our drinking age is a lot younger than yours).

Post edited by: repenttokyo, at: 2007/09/12 21:01

[repenttokyo]

lanky522 wrote:

repent, how do we always get ourselves into these messes...?

I swear, I don\'t think that there\'s one thing that we agree on...

What\'s your favorite pizza topping? Mine\'s pepperoni.

we just see the world in a different way. no big deal.

[lanky522]

repent wrote:

There is a huge difference between social drinking and driving drunk. I don\'t have a single friend who has a DUI. Driving drunk is a huge killer in my province and it\'s taken very seriously - it\'s a criminal act, with a minimum sentence. DUI indicates you have a problem drinking - period. You drank so much that you got behind the wheel of a machine that could kill people thinking you were in control. It\'s a whole other dimension from having drinks with friends at a hockey game or a party. It\'s not a \"silly suggestion\". When an incident like that happens, you need to look at your life and make a change so that something like that never happens again.

huh... well how about that... another cultural difference between the states and our neighbors to the north. I have met more people than I can count on my two hands that have gotten dui\'s down here in the states. I don\'t know if that just means that people take it less seriously down here or what, but it\'s definitely fairly commonplace (in my opinion) for most people to have a few drinks and then drive home.

Interesting to see that the laws regarding alcohol in canada (despite being able to drink at a younger age) seem to be a little more strict than they are here in the states.

btw, kudos on not drinking... I always have quite a bit of respect for people that stay dry because of family history.

[repenttokyo]

do the DUI rules vary from state to state? In Quebec it\'s been made a high priority in terms of reducing road fatalities, and stats are finally beginning to drop, which is good. do you guys have felony dui? In Canada, if a crime has a minimum sentence, like drunk driving, you can never receive a pardon, so you will always have a criminal record.

Post edited by: repenttokyo, at: 2007/09/12 21:40

[lanky522]

Hm... I\'m not sure exactly on all of our specifics, but I\'m fairly certain that while the limit might be more stringant(sp?) from state to state, it\'s no more lenient than 0.1 anywhere.

I don\'t know anyone that\'s gotten a felony dui... all I know are people with misdemenors for it. I think felony might be reserved for agregious(sp?) circumstances like hitting people or getting in accidents.

I don\'t know much about pardons for it, but I know people who have gotten parole (basically no punishment) and haven\'t even had their licenses taken away. I think a dui is an automatic 6 points on a Maryland license... you need 12 to have your license taken away. Hit and run (drunk or otherwise) is an automatic 12 (lose your license) though last time I checked so maybe that\'s the sort of punishment that you all have standard up there...

[repenttokyo]

yeah, it\'s pretty serious. Get caught with more than .08 in your blood, and you lose your license and get a criminal record. Most people don\'t do jail time, although some do. Depends on the circumstances and your lawyer. Hit and run with alcohol, and you start looking at very serious charges.

Too many people were dying, so these laws came to pass, and now it\'s much better.

[Promethee]

I just wanted to say that I\'m impressed by this thread. On some other forums (I won\'t give any name but I\'m sure you know which I\'m talking about) it would have gone hugly real fast, there was matter for it to.

Anyway, I\'m glad I found this website. I stopped posting on other forums altogether (not worth the trouble).

Cheers!

Post edited by: Promethee, at: 2007/09/13 10:49

[Scribe]

lanky522 wrote:lanky522 wrote:

I\'m not saying he should \"hide\" anything. I\'m just saying that this doesn\'t at all pertain to hockey and shouldn\'t be on a hockey message board. This is his personal life. He didn\'t receive a hockey suspension so there\'s no impact for us and should remain unsaid.

I don\'t think that just because he\'s a professional athelete, people should go around saying, \"I know someone who knew someone who said that bouwmeester was a heavy drinker.\" So what? Who in their early 20s doesn\'t drink a bit? It\'s just a silly thing to post here. At least the tabloids have pictures of certain behaivior. This is just absolute heresay and is likely completely untrue.

In my mind, this post was the same as someone posting something about britney spears shaving her head in the \"NHL Discussions\" area. It just doesn\'t belong. Bouwmeester enjoying drinking has nothing to do with his fantasy value (since I\'m sure he\'s been drinking for a while now), and since there\'s no NHL action against him, there\'s no reason to bring up the fact that he might have a drinking problem.

<br><br>Post edited by: lanky522, at: 2007/09/12 14:49

Well, I respect your opinion and agree with you to a point, I differ on this being strictly a \"personal\" problem. If Jay Bouwmeester is drinking too much and not \"just a bit\" as you said, then that would affect his conditioning and his on-ice performance. At that point, it becomes a hockey issue and not just a personal issue. I wouldn\'t care if Jay Bouwmeester drinks a few pops after a game or Shirley Temples or wears a garter belt like Nuke LaLoosh in Bull Durham. Those are personal issues and don\'t belong on this board.

Do you see the difference? I think Bouwmeester\'s development has been steady, but it has been slower than some people expected. If the drinking problem is true, then that might serve to explain his on-ice development.

Keep in mind, this incident involving the drunk driving occurred in August 2006. Bouwmeester followed up with perhaps his best all-around season after that. Although he scored four fewer points, he set a career high for goals and plus-minus. I have J-Bo in my pool and I expect big things from him this year and hope that he either learns from this, or that it was an isolated incident.

Post edited by: Scribe, at: 2007/09/13 13:06