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Thread: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

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    Default Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/3191855

    The San Jose Sharks blue-liner strongly believes there should be an annual award to honor the league's best defensive defenseman
    I would support this.... they have the top defensive forward award and all the scoring awards.

    Why not have a top scoring D-man award and name it after Bobby Orr?

    Then have a top defensive D-man award and name it after Lidstrom, Savard??
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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/3191855



    I would support this.... they have the top defensive forward award and all the scoring awards.

    Why not have a top scoring D-man award and name it after Bobby Orr?

    Then have a top defensive D-man award and name it after Lidstrom, Savard??
    100% agree. Should have happened a long time ago.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    I like the idea. Only detraction I see would be that you'd lose the Norris Trophy - "greatest all-round ability in the position". It does go to the highest scoring D a lot, but the Best D in the league is a nice thought and award. With the two new awards you just get the highest scoring D and best defensive D. Same problem for forwards, but they usually have a better chance with Hart and Lindsey.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    I could get on board with this. Even if the NHL doesn't do it, I would like to know who people in the league or people who follow it closely think was the top defensive defenseman of the year. This stuff gets forgotten over time as its not always easy for fans to find the right stats that show this, especially if you went back decades.

    I imagine the NHL is worried about the Norris becoming the best offensive defenseman award if they make a defensive one. Some would argue that it already has become that (IMO its not there yet). I don't know what the NHL thinks of this idea but I would nonetheless like to know who people in the business think this player is each year.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    I've been saying this for years, the Norris trophy is not handed out to the leagues best defenseman. It's handed out to the leagues best offensive defenseman and that's wrong.

    Recognize both but don't try and tell us the Norris is given to the best overall Dman because it hasn't been that way for years.
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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I've been saying this for years, the Norris trophy is not handed out to the leagues best defenseman. It's handed out to the leagues best offensive defenseman and that's wrong.

    Recognize both but don't try and tell us the Norris is given to the best overall Dman because it hasn't been that way for years.
    If a defenseman creates 70 goals but gives up 50, and a different defenseman creates 35 but gives up 20, who is the better defensman?

    The goal of the game is to score more than your opponent.

    I'm not against this award, but I'm extremely confident it would be given out poorly. Even the Selke award is sill highly points based.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    If you're a good defensive Dman, you help that cause too by not giving up goals defending your own end but those Dmen don't get the same recognition because actually playing defense isn't as sexy as scoring.

    Of course scoring is how you win but defending is just as important or at least it should be. That is what Vlasic is saying that doesn't get recognized. Most teams will tell you you win the big games with the shutdown guys and they are just as important as the offensive guys. They're hard to find too (the quality ones).
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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    I've got mixed feelings...

    It's easy to point to the Selke and say forwards have a defensive trophy, but if you look at perennial Selke contenders like Datsyuk, Kopitar, Bergeron, now AM34, they are top shelf offensive guys. They are not "shut down" forwards at all.

    For the most part, they get it right with the Norris. Yes you gotta have good offensive output, but they generally give it to solid defensive guys - Doughty, Hedman, Keith, Makar come to mind as examples. Sure you've got guys like EK in there, but you've gotta massively outperform offensively to win in those rare instances.

    How do you judge the best "defensive" d-man? It's hard to really point at something objectively... there are a lot of really good "shutdown" defense guys in the league, so how do you differentiate from there - oh wait, points.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    I've got mixed feelings...

    It's easy to point to the Selke and say forwards have a defensive trophy, but if you look at perennial Selke contenders like Datsyuk, Kopitar, Bergeron, now AM34, they are top shelf offensive guys. They are not "shut down" forwards at all.

    For the most part, they get it right with the Norris. Yes you gotta have good offensive output, but they generally give it to solid defensive guys - Doughty, Hedman, Keith, Makar come to mind as examples. Sure you've got guys like EK in there, but you've gotta massively outperform offensively to win in those rare instances.

    How do you judge the best "defensive" d-man? It's hard to really point at something objectively... there are a lot of really good "shutdown" defense guys in the league, so how do you differentiate from there - oh wait, points.
    This.

    Norris doesn't automatically go to the guy with the most points, but one of the top guys who is typically also pretty responsible and could probably be an awesome shut down guy if they weren't also so crazy talented.

    Best defensive defenseman would be some weird eye test mixed with BLKs, +/- or some advanced stats (lowest opponent zone entries or least high danger shots or some shit) and some unofficial cap on how many points they get so as not to be too offensive.

    Chris Tanev? Gus Forsling? Brayden McNabb? Ryan McDonagh?

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    I've got mixed feelings...

    It's easy to point to the Selke and say forwards have a defensive trophy, but if you look at perennial Selke contenders like Datsyuk, Kopitar, Bergeron, now AM34, they are top shelf offensive guys. They are not "shut down" forwards at all.

    For the most part, they get it right with the Norris. Yes you gotta have good offensive output, but they generally give it to solid defensive guys - Doughty, Hedman, Keith, Makar come to mind as examples. Sure you've got guys like EK in there, but you've gotta massively outperform offensively to win in those rare instances.

    How do you judge the best "defensive" d-man? It's hard to really point at something objectively... there are a lot of really good "shutdown" defense guys in the league, so how do you differentiate from there - oh wait, points.
    love this post! Well done sir, thats all im going to say....
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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    Quote Originally Posted by blayze View Post
    I've got mixed feelings...

    It's easy to point to the Selke and say forwards have a defensive trophy, but if you look at perennial Selke contenders like Datsyuk, Kopitar, Bergeron, now AM34, they are top shelf offensive guys. They are not "shut down" forwards at all.

    For the most part, they get it right with the Norris. Yes you gotta have good offensive output, but they generally give it to solid defensive guys - Doughty, Hedman, Keith, Makar come to mind as examples. Sure you've got guys like EK in there, but you've gotta massively outperform offensively to win in those rare instances.

    How do you judge the best "defensive" d-man? It's hard to really point at something objectively... there are a lot of really good "shutdown" defense guys in the league, so how do you differentiate from there - oh wait, points.
    It's an entertainment product in the end. Giving out awards for the best in different ways is relevant as long as people take notice and the person being awarded appreciate it.

    So - has the Selke Trophy been a good award? I think it has. It seems to be one of the more prestigious awards despite the necessary judgement calls and hybrid nature.
    Aside from the Selke - the Art Ross and the Maurice Richard also go to forwards. You probably know it's been 25 years since a D-man has awarded the Hart, before that it was Orr. Ted Lindsey? - Orr. Lots of forward awards. Only one D per season and it often goes to a/the top scoring one.

    There's a risk of inflation of trophy awards, but also a very good chance that another D-trophy would feel relevant for the fans and appreciated by the player.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    It simply must be pointed out that the Hart, Ted Lindsey, Art Ross, and Rocket Richard trophies are not exclusively forward awards. But they do speak to the larger point quite succinctly. You can always win by scoring more than your opponent. In fact it is the only actual way to win.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    It simply must be pointed out that the Hart, Ted Lindsey, Art Ross, and Rocket Richard trophies are not exclusively forward awards. But they do speak to the larger point quite succinctly. You can always win by scoring more than your opponent. In fact it is the only actual way to win.
    It's also possible to win by making the opponent score less than you. Just a point of perspective. Last year's finals is a good example of team winning strategies - Barkov vs McDavid. Goal suppression vs individual scoring.

    If the point is that "scoring more than your opponent. In fact it is the only actual way to win." and this should lead to trophies - Art, Rocket, Hart, Lindsey - all tied to scoring in most ways, you've got to question how relevant the Selke is, which not necessarily is tied to scoring and in extension - winning. A defensive D award is as relevant as the Selke, which I like since highlights other more subtle aspects of the game.

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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    I think it's safe to say that good offense and strong defense are both key to winning games and both should be recognized. That's what Vlasic is trying to say, and I completely agree with him.
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    Default Re: Vlasic wants the NHL to have a defensive D-man award

    Nobody cares about the Selke…

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