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Thread: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

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    Default 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    LINK TO THIS YEAR'S TRACKING SHEET - ENTRY SHEET IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS MESSAGE.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Deadline is before the first game of the tournament starts

    HALL OF FAME:2007/08: miked (out of 9 entries)
    2008/09: ultrawhiteness (out of 28 entries)
    2009/10: watchingthegame (out of 28 entries)
    2010/11: metaldude26 (out of 20 entries)
    2011/12: vandalay (out of 29 entries)
    2012/13: dodospice (out of 49 entries)
    2013/14: CaptainCally (out of 21 entries)
    2014/15: watchingthegame (out of 34 entries - two time champ)
    2015/16: Crazy Joe Davola (out of 37 entries)
    2016/17: vandalay (out of 34 entries) - 2 time champ)
    2017/18: markyj (out of 31 entries)
    2018/19: axeman33 (out of 38 entries)
    2019/20: crimsonyann (out of 44 entries)
    2020/21: PenguinHunter (out of 42 entries)
    2021/22: Tournament Cancelled - no competition held for the summer tourney
    2022/23: Forsbergfan (out of 25 entries)
    2023/24: watchingthegame (out of 23 entries)
    2024/25: TBD
    Credit to user 'reeveta' who started the pool and was running this for the first 9 years.
    And credit to use 'Nights' who helped from 2010-2016 and then took over completely in 2017.

    Same format as last year.

    SCORING:
    Points only for skaters
    Goalies Wins = 2, OTL = 1, SO = +2
    The only points that count are those in games that lead to a medal (round robin and playoffs). This does include the bronze medal game. Relegation round or 5th-6th seeding games are NOT included.

    In case of a tie in points, the winner will be decided via shootout - which is to say, the highest amount of goals. Most points in the gold-medal game may be used as the second tie-breaker if necessary.

    ROSTER
    12 forwards, 6 d-men, 2 goalies + 2 captains (total 22 players)
    Only 5 players from any one nation (including all positions and captain) so you can?t load up on one or two nations.
    Captains are in to try and drive some variety. I used the forums' collective judgement in figuring out who some of the top picks will be. Does a good job to help diversify picks across different teams. It's always tough.

    Captain options for this year's pool are: TBD

    Captain - F Captain - D
    Bradly Nadeau Zeev Buium
    Otto Stenberg Axel Sandin-Pellikka
    Ryan Leonard Matthew Schaefer
    Konsta Helenius Tanner Molendyk
    Gabe Perreault

    PRIZE
    Respect and bragging rights.

    HOW TO ENTER
    In the attached .zip file in which I have put a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet. From here you can use the pull-down menus to pick you team. The spreadsheet counts the number of players from each nation. Once you have selected your 22 players save the excel file with your username and email it to me. My email is [email protected]

    Please put '2024 World Junior Pool' in the title so it will be easy to spot in case your email gets caught as spam.

    You can also use the link provided at the bottom to the Google Sheets version of the file. You can make your changes, download the file as an Excel and send that over instead.

    If you don't have Microsoft Excel your other option is to email me with the names (first name and last name) of you entry in a list. The names must be spelled exactly as found on the roster from the IIHF website (insert website). This makes it possible for me to cut and paste into excel. Be sure to count the number of players you have from each nation.
    If you don't have email and want to PM me please also make sure the full name is spelled correctly. Names I don't understand may be mistaken for depth players on Team Denmark (Who haven't qualified this year!).

    The deadline is before the drop of the puck for the first game

    CHANGES
    Every year a few people wanted to change their entries after they made them but before the deadline. This is not a big deal but it is something I would like to minimize because it opens it up for me to make a mistake. The best plan is to wait until closer to the start of the tournament to make your entry. However, if you want to change it I will accept it up until the deadline.

    NOTES AND DISCLAIMER
    I have done the best I can to get the up-to-date rosters but these rosters are pre-cuts for some teams and there may be errors. I take no responsibility for you picking players that don't play, or great players not being listed, although I will try to update when possible.

    If player is not on the pull down list but should be, add him in the 'write in' section. There shouldn't be many but if there are I am sorry. Every year a few people put a write-in candidate that is one of the captain choices. Be sure to look there first.


    SPREAD THE WORD
    Please feel free to spread the word around the forums about this free challenge.
    Here's the google sheets version - save a copy (*either make a copy on Google Drive, or Download it as a separate file type locally), complete it, then e-mail it to me (preferably as an .xlsx).
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...f=true&sd=true


    IF NOT PLEASE click the link above and make sure your copy and save that file.

    Email - [email protected]

    Good luck!
    Last edited by pmorrow; December 23, 2024 at 11:57 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Just a thought - what would be the downside of letting people name whoever they want as their F and D captains? Seems like the process of picking the captain options is pretty contentious a lot of years. We could keep most of the same guardrails, maybe add a couple extra roster slots?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by pmorrow View Post
    Just a thought - what would be the downside of letting people name whoever they want as their F and D captains? Seems like the process of picking the captain options is pretty contentious a lot of years. We could keep most of the same guardrails, maybe add a couple extra roster slots?
    I am on board with changing up the captain system for sure.

    If people get to name whoever they want as captain - would we just apply a 1.5X point total for those players?
    I like the idea of that differentiating between the top forwards and Defense.

    And yes - if we add a couple roster slots it still helps people to get some depth and rosters to be different enough.
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    I wouldn't change a formula that has worked for 15+ years. I don't think it's been contentious. (Not knowing which goalies will be playing on the other hand...)

    Without captains, there will be less diversity between submitted rosters. I always like to see how other participants went in different directions.

    Imagine if everyone could have picked Gauthier, Smith, Lekkerimaki, Savoie and Kulich instead of just one last year... I'm glad those who had the guts to pick Kulich as their captains got an edge from doing so.
    12-team Dynasty Salary
    G-A-H-B/W-SO
    Crosby, Ovechkin, Hagel, Ehlers, Tavares, Stone, Neighbours. DeBrusk. Seguin, Cotter, Lindstrom, Kasper, Blake, Rosén, Brindley, Del Bel Belluz, Unger Sorum
    Dunn, Carlson, Sergachev, Harley, Fehervary, Luneau, Korczak, Pickering, Rinzel, Ufko
    Bobrovsky, Woll, Stolarz, Bussi, Garand

    10-team Dynasty Roto (Defending Champ)
    G-A-FOW-STP-H-B/W-GAA-Sv%
    Matthews, Hyman, Bratt, Guentzel, Konecny, Horvat, Lindholm, Buchnevich, Laine, Vilardi, Peterka, Kulich, Kemell, Öhgren, Bourque, Snuggerud
    Makar, Josi, Dobson, Pietrangelo, Hanifin, Faber, Edvinsson, Zellweger, Casey, Willander, Molendyk
    Shesterkin, Hellebuyck,
    Wallstedt

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    I'm with CrimsonYann, I think the captains make a huge difference. Yes we sometimes have disagreements over who should be the captains, but at the end of the day, it adds a lot of variety to the selections. The 5 captains that CrimsonYann mentioned from last year -I might not have agreed with the need for them all to be captains, but they still would have been on virtually every roster. There's always others that could be debated, but this adds tons of variety.

    GET WELL SOON, DOBBER.

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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by forsbergfan View Post
    I'm with CrimsonYann, I think the captains make a huge difference. Yes we sometimes have disagreements over who should be the captains, but at the end of the day, it adds a lot of variety to the selections. The 5 captains that CrimsonYann mentioned from last year -I might not have agreed with the need for them all to be captains, but they still would have been on virtually every roster. There's always others that could be debated, but this adds tons of variety.
    I don't argue with the captains making a huge difference.
    You are right.... they make a huge difference. The pool can be won or lost by the picking of captains.
    If you don't pick the right captain - you have no chance of winning the pool.
    Ask everyone who picked Shane Wright as a captain a couple years ago...


    If variety is what we want so bad is there not ways to create variety??
    That doesn't punish people for not picking the right captain.

    And having players one very roster....having the captains doesn't eliminate that...
    it just pushes it down to everyone having the same players from the next tier of players.

    Take two years ago for example. Shane Wright, Connor Bedard, Joakim Kemell captains year.

    Cutter Gauthier
    Simon Nemec
    Aleksi Heimosalmi
    Jiri Kulich
    Jimmy Snuggerud
    Dylan Guenther

    All those players were virtually on every roster.

    Or last year:
    Celebrini
    Poitras
    Ostlund
    Bystedt
    Geekie

    So there is going to be a group of players that are pretty much on every roster whether you have captains or not.

    How do you want to win the pool??

    By luckily picking the right captain?

    Or byskillfully picking the right players that are going to line up on the right powerplay units, or the right winger that is going to stick with the two big dawgs for USA?

    Or another way to consider it is... how do you want to lose the draft?

    By picking Captain A who has a great tournament and scores 14 points but missing out on Captain C who goes nuts and scores 22 points.
    You are (-8) points just because of the captain you picked.
    We all know given the chance you would have picked both these players in a true pick'em.

    This is even extrapolated majorly when your captain gets hurt early in the tourney.

    Or

    Taking a chance on a young 17 year old that might get top line minutes and then doesn't and only scores 3 points in the tourney.

    I guess another option for more variety is we could make it more of a straight up box pool.
    That could ultimately solve the concern of players being on too many rosters.
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    True, PenguinHunter, the secondary level of players wind up on everyone's roster when we have captains. But without that, both tiers of players would wind up on everyone's rosters. So instead of 5 players, it would be 11. Once we get past those tiers, we start to get more variance just based on who everyone likes and the limit of players per country.


    A couple of ideas:
    1. For the past few years I've been suggesting having a second forward captain (or call it an assistant captain). For the 2nd tier of players. So last year it would have been for guys like Leonard and Perreault, who were on most rosters but weren't captains. Not too many others were interested in that, and I think that this year it's probably not necessary as it is (since looking over the team rosters, I expect a bit more variance than usual), but it would add even more variety if we were to consider it.
    2. Another option could possibly be to change the maximim per country from 5 to 4, so we'd be able to choose less players from the powerhouses, which should add variety since some might want defencemen and goalies from the top teams, and some might want to load up on forwards. I could see the downside in this though, as top players from weaker teams would definitely get picked. For example, a guy like Dvorsky, who plays for a team that I personally think won't be strong this year, will miss out on the medal games IMO, and that means there's a good chance I won't pick him. But if we're limited in the medal teams as it is, good chance we'll have to fill out our rosters from the weaker teams anyways.

    GET WELL SOON, DOBBER.

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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Personally, I dont think it needs to change at all. Is it broke? What's that old saying again?
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Peterka, PKane, Bunting, Voronkov, BClarke, Perreault

    G- Vasilevskiy, Oettinger, Blackwood

    "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."

    Mark Twain

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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Please don't change it.
    Follow me on Twitter@SteveLaidlaw

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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    A huge thank you to everyone who contributes to making this pool happen year after year. I can only imagine the time and effort required to organize and keep this free-to-play pool running smoothly throughout the holiday season — your efforts are most definitely appreciated from my end.

    This year's tournament should be interesting for our Canadians, with some questionable decisions leading into it and the USA team looking as stacked as ever on paper.

    With that said -- wishing the entire DobberHockey community a happy and healthy holiday season!
    The League in London (20 Team Multi-Cat H2H $100 Dynasty League) - Season 12
    ... In memory of "The Net Detective"
    C Pinto Hayton kDach Lowry / Roy Glass Reichel Blueger Lombardi Surin
    LW kJohnson Knies Lehkonen Geekie / Quinn Luostarinen Buchelnikov Grebenkin
    RW Wilson Kakko Lafferriere Chinakhov / Roslovic Brink Chaffee Kantserov sO'Reilly
    D Werenski Pionk Power Hronek Evans Guhle / Roy Blankenburg Gudas ASP Salomonsson
    G Swayman / Hill Hogberg Kokko Ivanov Skarek
    2025 Picks: 1st, 3rd, 3rd
    2026 Picks: 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd

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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Anyone have a track on Finland's Roster.

    Can't finish the entry form and such until it is made available.
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    I don’t know why EliteProspect is missing Finland’s roster, but I saw this Hockey News article:
    https://thehockeynews.com/internatio...-junior-roster
    12-team Dynasty Salary
    G-A-H-B/W-SO
    Crosby, Ovechkin, Hagel, Ehlers, Tavares, Stone, Neighbours. DeBrusk. Seguin, Cotter, Lindstrom, Kasper, Blake, Rosén, Brindley, Del Bel Belluz, Unger Sorum
    Dunn, Carlson, Sergachev, Harley, Fehervary, Luneau, Korczak, Pickering, Rinzel, Ufko
    Bobrovsky, Woll, Stolarz, Bussi, Garand

    10-team Dynasty Roto (Defending Champ)
    G-A-FOW-STP-H-B/W-GAA-Sv%
    Matthews, Hyman, Bratt, Guentzel, Konecny, Horvat, Lindholm, Buchnevich, Laine, Vilardi, Peterka, Kulich, Kemell, Öhgren, Bourque, Snuggerud
    Makar, Josi, Dobson, Pietrangelo, Hanifin, Faber, Edvinsson, Zellweger, Casey, Willander, Molendyk
    Shesterkin, Hellebuyck,
    Wallstedt

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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    Anyone have a track on Finland's Roster.

    Can't finish the entry form and such until it is made available.
    Here's a link to their camp roster: https://x.com/lassialanen/status/1867967859420262600

    They only took one extra forward to camp and won't make that single cut until after their pre-tournament games, which wrap up on the 23rd. Pretty safe to just put the all the names in there and let people weed things out once they make their cut.
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by forsbergfan View Post
    True, PenguinHunter, the secondary level of players wind up on everyone's roster when we have captains. But without that, both tiers of players would wind up on everyone's rosters. So instead of 5 players, it would be 11. Once we get past those tiers, we start to get more variance just based on who everyone likes and the limit of players per country.


    A couple of ideas:
    1. For the past few years I've been suggesting having a second forward captain (or call it an assistant captain). For the 2nd tier of players. So last year it would have been for guys like Leonard and Perreault, who were on most rosters but weren't captains. Not too many others were interested in that, and I think that this year it's probably not necessary as it is (since looking over the team rosters, I expect a bit more variance than usual), but it would add even more variety if we were to consider it.
    2. Another option could possibly be to change the maximim per country from 5 to 4, so we'd be able to choose less players from the powerhouses, which should add variety since some might want defencemen and goalies from the top teams, and some might want to load up on forwards. I could see the downside in this though, as top players from weaker teams would definitely get picked. For example, a guy like Dvorsky, who plays for a team that I personally think won't be strong this year, will miss out on the medal games IMO, and that means there's a good chance I won't pick him. But if we're limited in the medal teams as it is, good chance we'll have to fill out our rosters from the weaker teams anyways.
    Would the whole second tier end up on everyone's roster?
    I don't believe they would with the player per country limit of 5...
    The secondary tier couldn't end up on every roster.

    There is always three Canadian captains - two forwards and a D.
    So if everyone picks those 3.
    Then not everyone is going to be able to pick:

    Canadian Forward #3
    Canadian Forward #4
    Canadian Forward #5
    Canadian Defense #2
    Canadian Goalie #1

    the same would happen for Team USA and Team Sweden.

    So I do not believe the whole first tier of players would be selected.

    But the whole second tier could not be picked.

    And the second tier of players would be where the pool would be won/loss.
    As opposed to winning or losing the pool based on the captain you pick or do not pick.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by metaldude26 View Post
    Here's a link to their camp roster: https://x.com/lassialanen/status/1867967859420262600

    They only took one extra forward to camp and won't make that single cut until after their pre-tournament games, which wrap up on the 23rd. Pretty safe to just put the all the names in there and let people weed things out once they make their cut.
    Thanks - I hope it gets entered into elite prospects soon as I don't really feel like typing Finnish names 1 by 1 into the spreadsheet. haha
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    Default Re: 2025 Edition - Dobber WJC Pool

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    As opposed to winning or losing the pool based on the captain you pick or do not pick.
    That's overstating the importance of a single pick.
    Last year, Watching the Game won despite picking Will Smith (9 pts) over Jiri Kulich or Cutter Gauthier (12 pts).
    In 2023, Forsberg Fan won despite taking Luke Hughes who had less points than each of the other defensive captain options (Jiricek, Clarke and Zellweger).
    12-team Dynasty Salary
    G-A-H-B/W-SO
    Crosby, Ovechkin, Hagel, Ehlers, Tavares, Stone, Neighbours. DeBrusk. Seguin, Cotter, Lindstrom, Kasper, Blake, Rosén, Brindley, Del Bel Belluz, Unger Sorum
    Dunn, Carlson, Sergachev, Harley, Fehervary, Luneau, Korczak, Pickering, Rinzel, Ufko
    Bobrovsky, Woll, Stolarz, Bussi, Garand

    10-team Dynasty Roto (Defending Champ)
    G-A-FOW-STP-H-B/W-GAA-Sv%
    Matthews, Hyman, Bratt, Guentzel, Konecny, Horvat, Lindholm, Buchnevich, Laine, Vilardi, Peterka, Kulich, Kemell, Öhgren, Bourque, Snuggerud
    Makar, Josi, Dobson, Pietrangelo, Hanifin, Faber, Edvinsson, Zellweger, Casey, Willander, Molendyk
    Shesterkin, Hellebuyck,
    Wallstedt

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