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Thread: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

  1. #346
    SeaDawg's Avatar
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    The Great One

    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    I'm late to comment on the aftermath of the series, but kudos to Florida for winning game 7. It was a hard-fought game and I have full respect for both rosters. Florida is a really strong team and there's no shame in losing to them, even if I dislike Tkachuk and Bennet. McDavid was amazing, but so was Bobrovsky and Barkov. Any of those three could have won the CS, but it's hard to ignore a record-breaking performance.

    I know a lot of people are going to crap all over the Oilers for not winning and say "I told you so...blah, blah, blah". Those same people are forgetting that Florida lost in the Final last year. Many great teams lose in the Final before putting it all together in a future season. The only thing I know for certain after these playoffs is that the Oilers showed they have the potential to win with their current roster. A few minor tweaks, avoid major injuries, add a bit of good fortune, and the Oilers could be right back in the Final next year a bit wiser and battle-worn.

    It's disheartening as an Oiler fan to get this close, but there are still reasons to be positive and hold faith in the core of this roster.
    12 team, H2H, salary cap
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    Forward: B. Point, M. Necas, A. Debrincat, T. Zegras, J. Bratt, L. Raymond
    Defense: J. Morrissey, A. DeAngelo, S. Gostisbehere, D. Doughty
    Goalie: T. Demko, E. Merzlikins
    Bench: M. Rossi, C. Glass, M. Maccelli, M. Dumba, K. Shattenkirk, F. Andersen
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaDawg View Post
    I'm late to comment on the aftermath of the series, but kudos to Florida for winning game 7. It was a hard-fought game and I have full respect for both rosters. Florida is a really strong team and there's no shame in losing to them, even if I dislike Tkachuk and Bennet. McDavid was amazing, but so was Bobrovsky and Barkov. Any of those three could have won the CS, but it's hard to ignore a record-breaking performance.

    I know a lot of people are going to crap all over the Oilers for not winning and say "I told you so...blah, blah, blah". Those same people are forgetting that Florida lost in the Final last year. Many great teams lose in the Final before putting it all together in a future season. The only thing I know for certain after these playoffs is that the Oilers showed they have the potential to win with their current roster. A few minor tweaks, avoid major injuries, add a bit of good fortune, and the Oilers could be right back in the Final next year a bit wiser and battle-worn.

    It's disheartening as an Oiler fan to get this close, but there are still reasons to be positive and hold faith in the core of this roster.
    Yeah. Lots to be happy about. I didn't think they would do this well in the playoffs this year. Sucks to be so close but the beautiful thing about a long playoff run is that summer is here so can forget about hockey right away and before you know it preseason will be here.

  3. #348
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Was a heartbreaker to watch the oilers lose again in game 7. That sure would’ve been a storybook ending to such a wild season. But Florida deserved it too. The cats finally get the cup, love to see Bob and Barkov hoist it. Paul Maurice too. Class act. It sucks to come back down 3 to force a final game and they just didn’t have enough left. The Oil have a lot to be proud of this year they fought back every time just wasn’t enough in game 7.

  4. #349
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post

    I would disagree strongly with this.
    Super strongly. Max amount.
    Hard. No.


    For me, a Stanley Cup winning goalie, one can just take the losses and put them in the trash can.
    WTF cares.
    How many wins did Bob steal for this team?
    To watch these games... and think there were FIVE other goalies that could do what Bob did... no... absolutely not... if there were, their teams would be here.
    Shesterkin and the NYR had a stronger team this year... they didn't outlast Florida.
    Hellebuyck and Swayman certainly didn't steal enough games for their team.
    Saros and Oettinger couldn't steal enough games.

    I know there is an "expected goals" stat out there.
    I'd like to see them in all the games FLA won... because I'd bet there are several games where the counts is 1+ above what the other team actually scored.

    Bob stole games 1 & 3 for FLA... possibly even 7.

    Goals given up by Bob in the wins: TB (2,2,3,1), BOS (1,2,2,1), NYR (0,2,2,1), EDM (0,1,3,1)
    And from the "watching" - which is important - there were a TON of enormous saves.

    Even the stuff that went IN... in the EDM series... a lot of it was "barely"... like so "barely".

    Bob was amazing (in the wins). Amazing.
    McDavid was the Conn Smythe - absolutely.
    If McDavid doesn't exist... it's Bob - if one can focus on the wins.
    If the losses count... then Barkov.


    But here's the thing...
    If people can look at the last two McDavid games... 0 points... and brush those aside... because he was AMAZING in the others...
    Then...
    In fairness...
    People should also only look at the great Bobrovsky wins... and brush the shit games aside... like they do for McDavid.

    Nobody is counting the McDavid 0pt games.
    But somehow it's fair to look at Bob's full cup SV% or GAA?
    Nah. Eff the games he got blitzed. Trash can. Just like McDavid 0pt games.
    This game is about the WINS. This game is about the winning and what guys do to get those wins.
    Bobrovsky came off 3 straight blitzed losses... and played pretty much lights out. That pressure. At home.
    The mental fortitude of weight felt for a Stanley Cup goaltender. There is NO pressure in sports like this.
    One goal against on a breakaway. Stonewalled the rest.

    [btw. There's a "breakaways" for each team stat - somewhere out there - somebody needs to post that for...]


    Apples-to-apples.

    Bobrovsky was Conn-Smythe worthy in a non-McDavid world. Period.
    Lol that’s a a lot of ramblings and assumptions on what I wrote. Bob is a great goalie, HoF-worthy and he had a great playoff series. A Conn Smythe candidate. ..but there were better ones out there this year. Connor McDavid is the obvious one. I’d have Barkov ahead of Bob. Forsling in the mix, but not as strong candidate.

    Is Bob in the elite company of top six goalies in the league? I believe he was this year, looks like top 2 even. He managed to play great when he needed to and allowed Florida to win the SC. Was there another goalie who could have done it this year if they had played for Florida? You claim ’No’, because if there were, they’d would’ve done it..?!! What the hell of a claim is that? Bob was the only goalie who could’ve won??
    Bob played behind an excellent defense the vast majority of games. Was there any other team which excelled in shutting down the opponents' stars to the same degree?

    Bob was good-amazing in the wins. In the losses less so. Had Edmonton had home ice advantage the final game, I believe the winner of the SC may have been different. Now it became a coin toss where Florida played well enough, Maurice had the final change, McDavid was shut down, Bob had a good game (he didn't steal game seven). All it was, and very close to having Stuart Skinner as the heralded goalie instead.

    Much else of what you wrote are straw-man arguments. I’m not going to go into them, because most of them I’ve never implied or disagreed to. Your effort to discredit other posters (often by implication) by setting up such arguments or just statements is off-putting to say the least.

    But... good lord... people want to lump in those Bob goals-against in the losses and discredit him.
    Like goaltending is some "anybody could've done this" position.
    Bob stole games that other goalies could not/would not - in high pressure CUP vs this EDM team. No respect by some. Awful.
    Yea, great summary…

    In the games I watched, I was impressed by Bob, but more impressed by Barkov’s shutdown ability, and by McDavid’s play and historical stats obviously (being able to appreciate one thing doesn’t mean you’re unable to appreciate other things, jfyi). Bob got it done, but since goaltending is the most important position in ice-hockey, the goaltender has to carry to win the Conn Smythe. Bob had an excellent defensive team in front, with the best defensive centre in the world, and possible the currently best defensive d-man in front, and last change in game 7. No disrespect shown, just a couple of more worthy Conn Smythe candidates imo.

    Adin Hill got it done last year. McDavid shut down, W Karlsson had Barkov’s job that series. No Conn Smythe for Hill either.

    As for my hypothetical ’5 other goalies likely could have succeeded too’ in that Florida team, we’ll never know the answer to, regardless of your protests. Maybe it’s just two or three others? Who knows? Darcy Kuemper won it the year before Hill. Stuart Skinner got awfully close this year.

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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Quote Originally Posted by loppantorkel View Post
    As for my hypothetical ’5 other goalies likely could have succeeded too’ in that Florida team, we’ll never know the answer to, regardless of your protests.

    I hope my comment was off-putting.
    You write all this and you won't name 5...

    Your comment was off-putting.
    And trash.
    You deserved to be called-out for it.


    [btw. I've gotten into with 6-7 forum members in the last couple weeks. Your stuff is good - I hope this doesn't rub you wrong forever. If so, sobeit. Trash comment... but I still love/respect you in general.]

  6. #351
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    I hope my comment was off-putting.
    You write all this and you won't name 5...

    Your comment was off-putting.
    And trash.
    You deserved to be called-out for it.
    You have a tendency of being put off when you get called out on something. You're very quick to call out others, placing yourself on a very high horse, while making assumptions and theories about those other posters who you don't know or have a clue about.

    No, I don't have to answer to you. It wasn't a hard claim I did. The assertion I made was that Bob wasn't carrying his team uniquely. A few other goaltenders likely could have found the same success in Florida this year. Could five other goalies likely have done it? Is it a certainty in either way? Can it be proven by you or me? No. It's just what I believe to be true. ..but you get all offended and has to deride and imply in a couple of lengthy posts, as you do at times. Yea, that can be off-putting, and it's not a good look on you. Trash talker. Gate keeper.

  7. #352
    Invictus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    I was going to try and pick 5 playoff goalies that could have replaced Bob and still probably win the cup.
    I was going to do it quoting rataylor22 though, but his quote is long and full of quotes itself and just too much effort to edit on mobile...

    Anyway, 5 goalies: (that were in playoffs) in no order

    Swayman- Played unreal.
    Skinner- His gameplay for elimination games is what puts him here

    Shesty
    Oettinger - these two are the top goalies

    Joseph Woll- Unreal, but I do admit 3 games is not a good sample size.

    Idk how well the VGK goalies played vs the team in front of them shutting them down. Again low sample size on them as well.
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus View Post
    I was going to try and pick 5 playoff goalies that could have replaced Bob and still probably win the cup.
    I was going to do it quoting rataylor22 though, but his quote is long and full of quotes itself and just too much effort to edit on mobile...

    Anyway, 5 goalies: (that were in playoffs) in no order

    Swayman- Played unreal.
    Skinner- His gameplay for elimination games is what puts him here

    Shesty
    Oettinger - these two are the top goalies

    Joseph Woll- Unreal, but I do admit 3 games is not a good sample size.

    Idk how well the VGK goalies played vs the team in front of them shutting them down. Again low sample size on them as well.
    Someone got mad at me for not putting all my quotes in one post so I switched it up lol.

  9. #354
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Oh lol.

    and I couldn't bring myself to quote your whole post just to comment on one little part of it.


    I do love what Barkov accomplished this playoffs (I need to state this as I've only talked McDavid vs Bob)
    I've always loved those types of players. Fedorov, Danault (not as offensive though), Datsyuk.
    Under appreciated.
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  10. #355
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    Default Re: Stanley Cup Final: Florida Panthers vs Edmonton Oilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Invictus View Post
    I was going to try and pick 5 playoff goalies that could have replaced Bob and still probably win the cup.
    I was going to do it quoting rataylor22 though, but his quote is long and full of quotes itself and just too much effort to edit on mobile...

    Anyway, 5 goalies: (that were in playoffs) in no order

    Swayman- Played unreal.
    Skinner- His gameplay for elimination games is what puts him here

    Shesty
    Oettinger - these two are the top goalies

    Joseph Woll- Unreal, but I do admit 3 games is not a good sample size.

    Idk how well the VGK goalies played vs the team in front of them shutting them down. Again low sample size on them as well.
    You could add a few other good-great goalies like Demko, Sorokin, Vasilevsky, Hellebuyck and Saros and ask yourself how they would've looked behind that Florida team. Who was the AHL goalie who almost knocked out Edmonton..? Arturs Silovs. Amazing how goalies can excel when they have well structured team in front. Goalies like Hill, Kuemper have gotten it done the most recent years, almost Skinner this season. Could all the mentioned goalies (including the quoted ones) have won it with Florida this year? Probably not, but five of them likely could have done it.

    Bobrovsky played good-great when Florida needed him to. No historic playoff performance. Not unique. Other goalies could've won in his place. Still not a controversial or disrespectful take. Just needs a bit of perspective and analytical ability. Decent Conn Smythe case, but others were more deserving. Anyone can compare Bob's performance to the past Conn Smythe goalie performances and see how it stacks up.

    I'm done with this argument. It's obvious to anyone who can read and has any sort of analytical capability that it's not impossible that a few other goalies could've done what Bob did. Easy to get caught up in biases and emotions though. ...and I still respect your takes Pengwin, just not all, and if you have trouble understanding someones takes, claims or inputs - a simple question for clarification is enough.

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