Solar Panels for your House

[Belexus75]

Nuclear Power is (currently) definitely the way to go for mass power. Just as safe as wind and solar energy.



I think I would have to compare a peak day from recent to a peak day from when it was installed.
This will take some time...

yeah i know lol..but yours are in the field, so your only risk is possibly paying more for installation that its worth it...otherwise you didnt take many risks which is good...panels on the roof can be problematic...can also work but is it worth the risk is the question.

In Ontario, about 15 years ago, many solar panel firms would lease roof spaces from different types of buildings with mostly flat roofs and would install these solar farms. They would basically pay rent to person owning the building and then cash the profit from generating energy. Many of these contracts also had clause in them that after 20 years panels belong to the building's owner which was basically free removal for the company that owned them. Some people fell for it in early days...some did read the fine print and projected out and removed those clauses...

there were many companies that made killing on this...and most of them lasted 3-5 years at most...this does not happen anymore in Ontario and mostly because associated grants are gone..

[DangerCat]

[QUOTE=Invictus;2237881]Nuclear Power is (currently) definitely the way to go for mass power. Just as safe as wind and solar energy.


It is until it’s not if you know what I mean. I’d love to work in a nuclear plant (Doh!) the problem is when things go wrong they GO WRONG! To be honest it would scare me to live near a nuclear power plant (nucular it’s pronounced nucular) but in all honesty all the processed food we ain’t isn’t much better but a meltdown is catastrophic that has global effects for decades+. Why not run cars on natural gas. You don’t make big power but it’s safe when you have a leak it is lighter than air and it burns very clean. A big problem too I have with electric ( and I have indeed put my tinfoil hat on so bear with me) is if the government for what ever reason says you know I don’t like the way DangerCat criticized my haircut - boom power off and my Tesla’s main computer gets shut down and I’m stranded. I drive a 2000 Grand Marquis. It rides like a Cadillac it’s actually decent on fuel, has a 4.6 v8 that has decent power when you need it and those for 4.6L engines run for at least 350km with out any big maintenance. Parts are plentiful as it’s like a Chev 350 v8. And when it dies I don’t have to contain it as there’a no crazy chemicals in it. Anyone hear that fire fighters have to wear special gloves/body suits for an electric car crash so they don’t get electrocuted? Cmon there’s gotta be a better way.
Ok the tin foil has come off. Good day gents.

[Belexus75]

[QUOTE=DangerCat;2237890]

Nuclear Power is (currently) definitely the way to go for mass power. Just as safe as wind and solar energy.


It is until it’s not if you know what I mean. I’d love to work in a nuclear plant (Doh!) the problem is when things go wrong they GO WRONG! To be honest it would scare me to live near a nuclear power plant (nucular it’s pronounced nucular) but in all honesty all the processed food we ain’t isn’t much better but a meltdown is catastrophic that has global effects for decades+. Why not run cars on natural gas. You don’t make big power but it’s safe when you have a leak it is lighter than air and it burns very clean. A big problem too I have with electric ( and I have indeed put my tinfoil hat on so bear with me) is if the government for what ever reason says you know I don’t like the way DangerCat criticized my haircut - boom power off and my Tesla’s main computer gets shut down and I’m stranded. I drive a 2000 Grand Marquis. It rides like a Cadillac it’s actually decent on fuel, has a 4.6 v8 that has decent power when you need it and those for 4.6L engines run for at least 350km with out any big maintenance. Parts are plentiful as it’s like a Chev 350 v8. And when it dies I don’t have to contain it as there’a no crazy chemicals in it. Anyone hear that fire fighters have to wear special gloves/body suits for an electric car crash so they don’t get electrocuted? Cmon there’s gotta be a better way.
Ok the tin foil has come off. Good day gents.

Yeah those plant are not fun!...i been on few roofs of necluar plant in Pickering, Ontario. It was good 15 years ago and i remember it was hot day and we had to wear those full body suits..we looked like we are about to step on Mars. Surprisingly i remember not being all that hot as those actually appear to protect you from heat. But still, it was my second least favorite project i ever done....Worst was when i did some roofs at the Zoo, i hang over the side to measure depth of drip flashing on exterior wall and i look down and about 10' away is big tier on his 2 back feet and 2 front ones are on the wall as high as they can be.....lol

[Invictus]

Rather live by a nuclear plant then a coal-fired plant.
AFAIK our power source is hydroelectric (also pretty safe like wind/solar/nuclear)

I do live somewhat close to a NORAD base... not sure if I should feel less or more safe about that :S

[DangerCat]

Rather live by a nuclear plant then a coal-fired plant.
AFAIK our power source is hydroelectric (also pretty safe like wind/solar/nuclear)

I do live somewhat close to a NORAD base... not sure if I should feel less or more safe about that :S

Uh-oh be careful…though if any missiles in Canada ever hit their target I’ll eat my hat (not actually though). I won’t lie the emissions those coal plants put out are more than coal so I understand. My grandpa worked at one of those and I wished id got to travail around one as I find that stuff cool. (I’m a plumber by trade so there’s a chance!) but in the night they release stuff that we’ll there not supposed to do I get it. You either die slow (coal) or fast (nucular). On a side note has anyone noticed how rain clouds/storms do seem to navigate around cities now? At least here in Edmonton it does..I do wholeheartedly believe it from whatever the 2-3 plants around our city emit. But still slow cancer is less intrusive than fast cancer/atomization!

[finnys_fanatsy]

Was just reading a story from here in SK where the money you get “credit” is a fraction of what you would pay for power. Like half of. The power company still has to pay for maintenance and infrastructure so the lost revenue is taking a toll on the bottom lines. There fore ( for argument sake) if you were to pay 10c per unit to receive power you only get a credit for say 4c per unit you sell to the grid.

[rataylor22]

https://www.calgary.ca/environment/p...alculator.html

I have many thoughts but have been mostly out of pocket since the this thread was started, so I’ll circle around Tuesday. However in the meantime given this is in Alberta here is maybe a link that should help give you a rough estimate of cost.

[GretzkysMullet]

This whole solar and electric “green” movement isnt as green or clean as people like to believe. Oil and gas is still fundamental in extraction of the raw materials, production of casing and refinement and the numerous chemicals in the batteries. The batteries themselves are highly toxic and require special disposal and in the cars only last around 5-10 years (though sadly most bodies on new vehicles don’t last more than that - sad that there’s more metal in my backpack zipper than a new Kia). Solar panels are made with oil and gas and if we’re honest the majority of electric power is still produced by coal power plants. To have ALL vehicles become electric will require billions of dollars in upgrading the grid and adding more power into the grid. If we don’t go coal then what do we use if you’re landlocked? Nuclear. Nuclear power is an incredibly cool technology. But we hear how safe it is..except all the horrendously poisonous waste and unfortunately catastrophic events happen and these plants blow as we have seen and that causes effects that not only are devastating but long lasting. I do honesty believe it would be better for us to all be driving around in early ‘90s caprices that have fuel injection and those 350 v8’s are simple, plenteous, reliable and easy to fix. It doesn’t require anything new to be produced and these new gas job engines are incredibly efficient. I know it’s not “fun” to keep making the same old car every year but if we’re really concerned about the environment and pollution I am thinking it may be proper to stay put. I probably sound like a dinosaur and that’s okay but I hope to inject an alternate opinion to maybe cause someone to think twice about how “green” really is the green movement. Thoughts?

Someone has to pipe in with a post like this literally every time there is a discussion about an alternative to fossil fuels like it's this novel viewpoint that has never been expressed before. It's like "well alternatives to fossil fuels aren't perfect, and we're still using fossil fuels, so might as well be all the way in amirite?" Like there is no in between, no point in a transition. Completely black and white situation. Might as well all go back to V8s and burn as much coal as possible. Climate change aside do me a favor and look up deaths due to air pollution annually and tell me we should just burn as much as possible and to hell with the "green movement". (Spoiler alert: more than 7 million) Even better, look the number of deaths in THE HISTORY of nuclear power (or nucular if you prefer, lol) since that's clearly nightmare fuel for you.

[Belexus75]

Someone has to pipe in with a post like this literally every time there is a discussion about an alternative to fossil fuels like it's this novel viewpoint that has never been expressed before. It's like "well alternatives to fossil fuels aren't perfect, and we're still using fossil fuels, so might as well be all the way in amirite?" Like there is no in between, no point in a transition. Completely black and white situation. Might as well all go back to V8s and burn as much coal as possible. Climate change aside do me a favor and look up deaths due to air pollution annually and tell me we should just burn as much as possible and to hell with the "green movement". (Spoiler alert: more than 7 million) Even better, look the number of deaths in THE HISTORY of nuclear power (or nucular if you prefer, lol) since that's clearly nightmare fuel for you.

you not wrong but when it comes to green in construction ...90% of it is generated to make more money not to save environment...once something dries out they come up with something else and so on....

new initiative now is reducing carbon footprint..which means use less carbon i guess...and its already slowing down and reason is that there isn't much money in it.

I was part of a team that did study on how to reduce carbon when you building small buildings for fast food chain...after 2 months of research and calculations we found that only good way is put as much carbon based materials in these buildings as you can...crazy eh? Well turns out that 90% of all carbon use is in the service, in the process of construction with all the machines, power tools, transportation of materials , cranes and so on. Carbon based materials are also very good and mostly better then non carbon based materials. So conclusion was that if we use just carbon based materials, the installation will last about 10 years longer therefore less construction procedures so less carbon emission. So to save us from carbon we should use more of it....makes sense , right? lol it is crazy world we live in.

[audiopile]

Yikes....


Anyway. I am building a house. My second one. I am using solar panels. They install to a metal roof with clips, this is the preferred method. Alternatively, they are connected to the roof using 4" lag screws into the trusses. The ones I am going to get have mini inverters, one per every two panels, and will connect to the main switch panel of the house on a 40A breaker. Use #8 cable to the attic, the cables from the panels can enter thru a "solar vent". I am buying a kit from the local solar panel installer guy. He seems more interested in helping people install them than anything else. The kit will cost me $11.5 k CAD for 5kW system, that is 14 panels. I will grid tie it to my local utility and they will pay me the difference between what i make and what I use. Over the course of a year, i should make money. And returns seems to come in about 10-15 years. If you want power when the utility goes out, you will need a battery bank or an EV and a bi-directional charger. I wouldnt bother installing a battery system, they are expensive and require maintenance. They will never pay for themselves. The car on the other hand...

As houses will be required to be carbon neutral by 2050 (new homes must be built to this standard sooner than that) I truly believe all homes will require some form of micro generation to meet these targets. Distributed generation is the answer anyway, it avoids the need to build (as many) big ugly dangerous plants and considerably adds reliability to the grid. Win for all.

*who cares about the politics of this, do it to save money over time. same reason I own an EV, its way cheaper than gas, and fresh air is a bonus by product.

[Belexus75]

Yikes....


Anyway. I am building a house. My second one. I am using solar panels. They install to a metal roof with clips, this is the preferred method. Alternatively, they are connected to the roof using 4" lag screws into the trusses. The ones I am going to get have mini inverters, one per every two panels, and will connect to the main switch panel of the house on a 40A breaker. Use #8 cable to the attic, the cables from the panels can enter thru a "solar vent". I am buying a kit from the local solar panel installer guy. He seems more interested in helping people install them than anything else. The kit will cost me $11.5 k CAD for 5kW system, that is 14 panels. I will grid tie it to my local utility and they will pay me the difference between what i make and what I use. Over the course of a year, i should make money. And returns seems to come in about 10-15 years. If you want power when the utility goes out, you will need a battery bank or an EV and a bi-directional charger. I wouldnt bother installing a battery system, they are expensive and require maintenance. They will never pay for themselves. The car on the other hand...

As houses will be required to be carbon neutral by 2050 (new homes must be built to this standard sooner than that) I truly believe all homes will require some form of micro generation to meet these targets. Distributed generation is the answer anyway, it avoids the need to build (as many) big ugly dangerous plants and considerably adds reliability to the grid. Win for all.

*who cares about the politics of this, do it to save money over time. same reason I own an EV, its way cheaper than gas, and fresh air is a bonus by product.

be careful with those clips hooking into metal Panels…seen them vibrate quite a bit and can be noisy on windy days…and securing through metal roof is not a good idea

[Invictus]

I tried to think about purchasing an EV... they are just too expensive to be considered.

[hawkdog]

With solar a lot is based on an individuals situation and location, the first question is why - are you looking to be off the grid or just save on hydro bills?
if you want to save money - probably best to audit your home to see if there is anywhere you can save energy - ie insulation, don't use a dryer, unplug appliances not in use, turn the lights off, sell the spa pool .....
If you live somewhere where they already produce green energy - like BC with hydro - are solar panels really necessary. I would say in about 10 years - solar roofs will be common - ie tesla solar roof tiles - lots of competition now, like 4-5 other companies rolling them out. https://youtu.be/sFwZQHZAJDc

I am researching solar because we had a cyclone in Feb - lost power and internet for a week. So I would like to be off the grid.
Keen on an EV because in theory you can charge it from energy produced from your solar panels. Tesla will be coming out with a <30k model soon, and they will really take off. As Ev's scale up so will battery recycling, tech is there just need scale.
https://www.carwow.co.uk/tesla/news/...ease-date#gref

[chuckcouples]

The main goal is two things. One is to help leave the world a better place for my children. The second is to save money. Based on my research, it sounds like installing solar panels should help me do both over the next few decades. Now the hard part is going to be finding and choosing the right company to work with to get everything set up.

I am also not sure if now or a year from now is a better time to get this project started. They recently announced a new solar panel that is apparently 50% more efficient (32% vs 21%). Governments are getting behind solar panels which will increase demand but will likely also increase costs. I also read what is happening in California where they are producing so much solar energy now that the energy companies are saying that energy is worthless during the day so anyone on a metered connection is getting shafted. I also fear that energy companies/governments are going to limit the amount of energy a single producer can supply (ie right now it's 110% of consumption in Alberta but that number is likely to shrink in the next few years). If I am going to produce my own energy it doesn't make much sense in my mind to produce less energy than I use.

Lots of different things to think about before making a $25,000 to $40,000 decision.

[audiopile]

The main goal is two things. One is to help leave the world a better place for my children. The second is to save money. Based on my research, it sounds like installing solar panels should help me do both over the next few decades. Now the hard part is going to be finding and choosing the right company to work with to get everything set up.

I am also not sure if now or a year from now is a better time to get this project started. They recently announced a new solar panel that is apparently 50% more efficient (32% vs 21%). Governments are getting behind solar panels which will increase demand but will likely also increase costs. I also read what is happening in California where they are producing so much solar energy now that the energy companies are saying that energy is worthless during the day so anyone on a metered connection is getting shafted. I also fear that energy companies/governments are going to limit the amount of energy a single producer can supply (ie right now it's 110% of consumption in Alberta but that number is likely to shrink in the next few years). If I am going to produce my own energy it doesn't make much sense in my mind to produce less energy than I use.

Lots of different things to think about before making a $25,000 to $40,000 decision.

Choosing the right company: I used google reviews and called a short list. From there you just choose whomever gives the best price with best conversation. Someone you feel you can work with, not a salesperson.
Timing: i havent looked yet, but are there any current rebates or incentives? are any planned? some are saying recession in the fall, might be a good time as well.
How billing works where I live: if my generation keeps up with my use over the year, im even, no bill. if i generate more than i use, im credited at the going rate (between 6-10c / kWh). and of course if i cant keep up i pay the difference.


Keep me posted on your progress.

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Interesting notes on "worthless day time energy". Time of use billing usually has night time rates lower than wake time rates, in the EU people do laundry at night to save a few cents. In my mind, this is good news, that day time power could be cheaper due to the surplus solar creates so I don't have to wake up at 3am to change my dryer load.

I bought a used EV for 17,000 in 2018. It costs me 1.5c per kilometer to move my vehicle (EVs have similar energy efficiency; Leaf, Tesla S, Bolt all very close ~15kWh/100km). I have saved over 1500$ a year in fuel and maintenance costs. I dont consider the cost of the vehicle because I had to buy something.