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Thread: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    The league has mandated St. Patrick’s day and military appreciation jerseys. So just from that perspective it would be. From a conversation standpoint, there probably wouldn’t be much fuss if a player didn’t wear a St. Patty’s one but you can be damn sure there would be an uproar if someone didn’t wear a military one.

    However the fact that the league has mandated some specific events but not this one is…..”something something that’s the whole point”.
    I hear ya- i get that- i went in a different direction there but it does illustrate how politically charged the conversation is- look how horrified rylant was that I had the audacity to compare green socks to rainbow ones??!!

    I think its being mandated is bunk myself. How can you mandate support? Thats not even support...

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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting_Emu View Post
    I hear ya- i get that- i went in a different direction there but it does illustrate how politically charged the conversation is- look how horrified rylant was that I had the audacity to compare green socks to rainbow ones??!!

    I think its being mandated is bunk myself. How can you mandate support? Thats not even support...
    We also forget these are entertainers and employees. Gets hairy when we don't know the wording in players contracts based on involvement in promotional nights and wording around making your company look bad. I'm sure there's a clause in there about non-disparagement clauses that they are also tiptoeing around.

    It could be something that is touched on in new contracts. Not that you are forcing players to participate, but there could be wording around it that a player won't be forced to wear it (players wanting it in the contract).
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    This is sports correction to how the employees of organizations treated people in the past. The anti-LGBTQ+ in male sports (mainly male sports, but all sports really) caused a fog of "sports isn't for everyone" over it and this is the correction to it. A portion of the world was treated unfairly and it's being made up in a way of "we as an organization (NHL/NBA/NFL ect.) support people we pushed away. Please come back and try us out again." Which is the reason for the events. But you may be talking more about an individual, than the larger picture I'm looking at? If so my bad.

    The NHL needs to promote the players who go above and beyond to accept people, and push the ones who don't backwards so we don't see them. For every report of Reimer, Provorov, and Ovi there should be 10 reports of Schenn, Rielly, Burke, Shanahan, Gio, Kadri, and so on. As much as I don't like what Provorov and Reimer say, I don't like it even more how the media reacts to this. The NHL media team is failing...again.

    I am talking 1 on 1. And that was meant more as, treat others as you wish to be treated. If someone decides to turn it downwards rather than upwards, that is a shame.

    And I can't agree with you more on your point. Its part on NHL but its also part on media, and all of us, to put out energy towards the positive stories rather than these negative singularities.


    ---
    A bit of an aside, but not really. There was a news report that "Elias Pettersson does not like to be yelled at". Now, some would say, "thats sports" or "thats hockey". But its a culture problem. (My boss doesnt yell at me, that would be absurd. There are respectful workplace rules to follow.) Another behavior that could use an adjustment in sport /NHL . So here is another example of where "I will treat you as you treat me" doesn't work, but the intent is that no one is yelling in the first place, and only when the yelling stops can we start to progress together in a constructive way.

    So for any homophobes out there, stop "yelling". Thanks.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    It’s the same. It’s one person’s opinion and nothing more.
    Very interesting... easier said than applied though, eh??
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    Bingo. This is why we have Black History Month, Women's History Month, Indigenous People's Day, Pride Events, ect. ect. to tell a group of people that have been mistreated and/or marginalized that these acts will not happen again or at the minimum that we are allies and support them. It speaks volumes when a white heterosexual male decides "Nah, I'm good." I won't support you because I am going to hide behind freedom of speech or even worse, one's chosen religion. And you know that someone strongly opposes LGBTQ+ if they refuse to wear a pride jersey since we all know the firestorm it will bring. I applaud the Sharks for not protecting Reimer in this matter. I have some sympathy for Russian players considering the Russian laws and what they might have to face at home but not for the Canadian Reimer.
    This right here, this is my entire issue with this topic. It is UNFAIR to draw this connection, regardless of what the fallout will be (which is undeserved). I cannot speak for others, but myself, if you put this on me, you would be wrong. Everything else you wrote is perfectly clear, understandable and agreed.

    Do people not have the capacity to keep their personal thoughts separate from their outward actions? Are you all walking around like zombies, totally out of control of yourselves? or am I a psycho?


    ---

    I will stop talking in here. I see there is more of a religious slant to this, which I don't know enough about to get involved. All I know is that religion causes all kinds of issues in today's world, more than it solves, or helps individuals get through life with some dodgy archaic instructions. Thanks all for your patience with me, as I try to understand.

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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    It's essentially coming down to "if you're not with us, you're against us" from one side, and the other side either "we are against you" or "I don't want to be involved" or "I don't want to do it because I'm being told to do it".

    I think if you aren't with a stance you are against it. There are different degrees of being against it. If you aren't for the cause, part of you believes in the opposing side...to a degree.

    Reimer to a degree is against LGBTQ+ community from having the same rights, respect, and/or comfort of living as he does. And that's just how it is.
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    These last two posts are brilliant! Refusing to wear rainbow sucks says two things about where your ideology is at- jack and sh*t! If there's a correlation then maybe (MAYBE) we should talk about it (respectfully and with a focus on improving the contributions from all sides- not just shaming/slamming one side)- but assuming anyone who doesn't want to wear the socks or anyone who argues they shouldn't have to is a bigot.or a homophobe is just dangerous and disengenuous rhetoric. Maybe more damaging is that there are issues that are ACTUALLY divisive and require critical thinking here- a process that can be aided immensely by genuine conversations about what are boundaries and where they should be- because this argument is going to darker places than just what you're local sports teams backup goalie wants to wear to warm-ups...

    Not supporting something or even saying something like "im not totally sure where i stand on that complex issue"- is NOT the same as being AGAINST it. Where im standing you're allowed to have a different world view ANYWAYS (because telling people what they MIST think actually IS evil and I don't care how benevolent you think your message is)- but this isn't even about that! It's about being mandated to support something in the first place! One thats not even support and two- you don't get to demand a world view out of people- thats the exact type of thinking that ostracized this community in the first place. Until we all collectively realize that either side shouting down the other and demanding they feel the way we do is damaging, dangerous and distorted- well keep squabbling about what amounts to a lot of nonsense.

    This actually IS a complicated issue and to navigate it both sides need to stop acting so childishly. We need respect and empathy to lead the way here...

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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by audiopile View Post

    So for any homophobes out there, stop "yelling". Thanks.
    Where exactly are they...? I haven't heard any homophobes yelling about it. Lots of straight people yelling about a jersey though.

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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by PrairieDog View Post
    Where exactly are they...? I haven't heard any homophobes yelling about it. Lots of straight people yelling about a jersey though.
    And what about the religiousphobes yelling and making fun of James Reimer?
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    And what about the religiousphobes yelling and making fun of James Reimer?
    Who's yelling at James Reimer for being religious? James Reimer is being called out for his hypocrisy and misinterpretation of his own religion, not for the fact that he is religious.

  11. #71
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Who's yelling at James Reimer for being religious? James Reimer is being called out for his hypocrisy and misinterpretation of his own religion, not for the fact that he is religious.
    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    It’s the same. It’s one person’s opinion and nothing more.
    So because he interprets his own religion different than you... that makes it a misinterpretation?

    C'mon man... you're smarter than that!
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    So because he interprets his own religion different than you... that makes it a misinterpretation?

    C'mon man... you're smarter than that!
    The "misinterprets his own religion" is based off of people translating bibles to english and changing the meaning of "not being a pedophile" to "don't be gay".

    So Christians who don't accept LGBTQ+ interpret the version of the bible correctly, just not the religion.


    --EDIT--
    I guess it would just be said to me that that's off my interpretation of interpretation...omg I can't stand these stances haha. Arguing books that can't be proven that have been translated over thousands of years...wow.

    --DOUBLE EDIT--
    What are the thoughts on Pope Francis endorsing LQBTQ+ community? I thought he said they should be welcomed? Honestly I don't know what the thoughts on this would be. I'm not truly educated on what the Pope is, and how his views should be seen by the religious community.
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  13. #73
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    So because he interprets his own religion different than you... that makes it a misinterpretation?

    C'mon man... you're smarter than that!
    It's not my interpretation vs. his. It's the main accepted interpretation by the majority of the religion vs. his. And the hypocrisy. That's the much more important one than the misinterpretation. But also regardless, even if it ~was~ my/each individuals interpretation vs. Reimer's, all of you are still being dishonest/disingenuous for saying Reimer is being dragged simply for being religious. That's simply false and nobody (at least #OnHere) has done that.

    As pointed out, the pope (some might consider him somewhat of an authority on these matters) has publicly stated an opposite stance to Reimer, so, y'know. That doesn't even consider that many countless religious NHL players who have worn pride jerseys, a far greater number than those religious NHL players who have not.

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    It's not my interpretation vs. his. It's the main accepted interpretation by the majority of the religion vs. his. And the hypocrisy. That's the much more important one than the misinterpretation. But also regardless, even if it ~was~ my/each individuals interpretation vs. Reimer's, all of you are still being dishonest/disingenuous for saying Reimer is being dragged simply for being religious. That's simply false and nobody (at least #OnHere) has done that.

    As pointed out, the pope (some might consider him somewhat of an authority on these matters) has publicly stated an opposite stance to Reimer, so, y'know. That doesn't even consider that many countless religious NHL players who have worn pride jerseys, a far greater number than those religious NHL players who have not.
    Oh... now I understand where the confusion is... you misinterpret everyone that is religious as a Catholic.



    --EDIT--

    In regards to putting your hand in the authority of the pope... does that mean that you guys also agree with the pope when he says this in regards to homosexuality...

    It’s not a crime. Yes, but it’s a sin,” he said.
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    Default Re: Reimer stirs the Pride pot

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    Oh... now I understand where the confusion is... you misinterpret everyone that is religious as a Catholic.



    --EDIT--

    In regards to putting your hand in the authority of the pope... does that mean that you guys also agree with the pope when he says this in regards to homosexuality...
    Ok, I was kinda curious on this. But I get his stance now. The whole basis of Christianity is we're all sinners anyways. He also goes on to say that the Catholic Church should welcome everyone and not discriminate. He's quote Catechism saying gay people must be welcomed and respected. Where Reimer states "I am choosing not to endorse something that is counter to my personal convictions..."

    "it's also a sin to lack charity with one another" is also what Pope Francis said.

    So on the opposition of Reimer, he's not being very welcoming.

    But thank you for clearing up the stance on it from the Pope's views. That actually is helpful. I'll likely back off of this now. It's really spinning wheels, and it'll disappear until the next player does it next season as I think all the Pride events are done.

    Thanks all for the input
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