Coyotes relocating to Salt Lake City

[pmorrow]

This thread is now about the pending relocation of the Coyotes to Salt Lake City, Utah.


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Update: this is now a general thread about the Coyotes situation: the Tempe vote on a new arena, potential changes in ownership, relocation talk, etc.



From Friedman's latest 32 Thoughts:

"25. I like John Buccigross’s tweeting style. A couple of years ago, he tweeted a picture of Taylor Hall, another of Anders Bjork and one of Tupac Shakur. Not long after, Hall was dealt from Buffalo to Boston for Bjork and a second-round pick. So, when he tweeted about Atlanta and Houston, a lot of people were intrigued. The NHL is throwing cold water on any hysteria, but uninformed speculation is what I’m best at.

Let’s stress that these are my opinions, rather than a true indication of where any of this might be going. First of all, it doesn’t make any sense to rush into anything until we know Arizona’s future. If the Coyotes win the referendum (or end up in a remodelled Suns’ arena), there’s no need to “waste” a potential expansion spot on them. But if the Coyotes can’t get clarity, one of those cities is going to be their next home"

26. I’ve always believed the league likes the idea of Houston."

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article...rade-deadline/


Basically what started this latest round of expansion/relocation buzz is the Buccigross tweets and a Kevin Weekes tweet which simply showed a picture of downtown Houston and the eyes emoji:

https://twitter.com/KevinWeekes/stat...91352686063620

https://twitter.com/Buccigross/statu...30686087380993

https://twitter.com/Buccigross/statu...35715988996097


This is not the first time Houston has been talked about as a legit contender for the Coyotes or expansion, but Atlanta being back in the mix for a team is certainly interesting.

[butch]

I have so many questions

[hockeyrobot]

Heard this on the pod. Can't imagine Atlanta getting another shot.

[stevegamer]

Of course the NHL has interest in Houston, it's a huge metro area, and the largest one without a team in all 5 major sports. I used 5 instead of four to show that the NHL's lack of presence there sticks out. Atlanta is also large, but they've had failed franchises twice, so I'd think they should be a lower priority.

[2014olympicgold]

I honestly think that teams fail cities more than cities failing teams.

If you have an owner that will invest in the team (from arena, scouting, coaching, all of that off ice stuff), a President that intends to win, a GM that's not newbie (or a GM that has been in the league for a while), you should have enough stamina to get past the "honeymoon phase" and ice a competitive team.

If you win, fans come out. Simple as that. If you lose, only hardcore fans come out. Atlanta Flames I disregard as that was a financial shitshow that I doubt happens again. Atlanta Thrashers was poorly run after being sold to an ownership group that had only basketball interest and the housing market crash in 2008. The crash effected Atlanta HARD, and there just wasn't money there to pull them out of it.

Besides all the above, Atlanta has had 2 tries at it, other cities deserve a shot before them. Houston 100% should be at the top of the list. Portland, Milwaukee, Hamilton, Kansas City, Quebec City, and Saskatoon should all be part of the discussion before Atlanta getting ANOTHER shot.

[rataylor22]

Of course the NHL has interest in Houston, it's a huge metro area, and the largest one without a team in all 5 major sports. I used 5 instead of four to show that the NHL's lack of presence there sticks out. Atlanta is also large, but they've had failed franchises twice, so I'd think they should be a lower priority.

What would you consider the five? MLS? Hockey certainly belongs in the same category as MLS but it certainly does not have a place among the big 3 anymore.

[rataylor22]

Hamilton and Quebec City will never get *expansion* NHL teams. People in those markets need to accept what you are, a constant and perfect break glass option. FWIW Calgary would probably be similar if they didn’t already have a team, although I do think they have a larger corporate bases than Hamilton or QC.

It honestly doesn’t make sense to go to either of those markets. It’s already a fairly saturated hockey market in terms of NHL revenue. Getting successful teams in Houston and Atlanta would have an exponential impact on league revenues compared to adding teams in Quebec City or Hamilton. Those two markets would just be largely diverting existing revenue.

Winnipeg being a successful market hasn’t really impacted league revenue. Seattle and Vegas being successful markets have significantly impacted league revenue.

[2014olympicgold]

Hamilton will never get a team if Buffalo is still there. I know that, but I think Hamilton deserves a team over Atlanta getting a 3rd chance. If Buffalo isn't there, I can see Toronto allowing Hamilton to get a team if they pay up big. But those chances are crazy low still.

The territory zone for teams is 50km where a new team needs permission from already existing teams to post up shop. Buffalo and Toronto are within that range of Hamilton. Edmonton and Calgary are like 300km from each other, so they wouldn't be within that 50km permission range.

I believe it's technically a 100km range. As Hamilton would get 50km, and that 50km range is within Buffalo's/Toronto's 50km range.

FWIW Montreal and Quebec City are 250km-ish from each other, so the 50km territory range wouldn't apply.

[LawMan]

I think Houston makes a lot of sense and has for some time:
-5th largest metro in USA (NY, LA, Chicago, Dallas, all have NHL teams)
- Rockets owner, Tilman Fertitta, has A LOT of money (net worth $8.2 billion) and has been pretty vocal about his interest in owing an NHL Team. He has a building, and the infrastructure in place, lots of cross-marketing opportunities.
- Insta intra-State rivalry with Dallas.
- Houston is in the Central time zone and can stay in the WEST. That is HUGE, in my view, you can move the Coyotes to Houston without a ton of division jostling. time zones are incredibly important for NHL fans. Coyotes could swap with Avalanche or simply stay in the Pacific. Avs were previously in a division with Oilers, Flames, Canucks...

NHL Expansion is an interesting idea. If you're an owner you love the idea of a free $600 million expansion fee which is NOT hockey related revenue. If you're the NHLPA you love the idea of 50+ new contracts for your union.
But the numbers become tricky. 32 teams is beautifully symmetrical, 4 divisions of 8 and is tied for the largest league in North America. Going to 33 or 34 would be unprecedented. I have to think if the NHL expands it wants to get to 34.
By adding Houston in the West you can then add a team in the East.

Looking at the East, Atlanta becomes a very enticing city once again. It is 8th metro (Washington, Philly - have teams)
Big cities mean: corporate sponsor opportunities and opportunity for NEW fans.
The biggest hurdle in Atlanta will be finding the right ownership (deep pockets, long-term commitment) and bringing fans back for a 3rd time.

[Belexus75]

Hamilton and Quebec City will never get *expansion* NHL teams. People in those markets need to accept what you are, a constant and perfect break glass option. FWIW Calgary would probably be similar if they didn’t already have a team, although I do think they have a larger corporate bases than Hamilton or QC.

It honestly doesn’t make sense to go to either of those markets. It’s already a fairly saturated hockey market in terms of NHL revenue. Getting successful teams in Houston and Atlanta would have an exponential impact on league revenues compared to adding teams in Quebec City or Hamilton. Those two markets would just be largely diverting existing revenue.

Winnipeg being a successful market hasn’t really impacted league revenue. Seattle and Vegas being successful markets have significantly impacted league revenue.

i dont know much about Quebec City but i completely disagree about Hamilton. I live 30 minutes from Hamilton and im there twice a week or more for work, i also got lots of friends there. Is it hockey saturated? yeah every inch of Canadian soil is in a way....but people of Hamilton are as friendly to Toronto as Vancouver is. Lots of Leafs fans there and most would stay that way but there is also tons of Sabers fans and im sure they would switch to Hamilton on a dot. CFL rivalry is at small scale obviously but its pretty great and im sure hockey would turn into that. On top of Hamilton there is Branford and St.Catharines that would support that team as well imo, maybe even as far as Woodstock and London.

Now do i think Bettman will ever award one to them? no way, i dont but once he is gone i can see that happen.

[rataylor22]

i dont know much about Quebec City but i completely disagree about Hamilton. Is it hockey saturated? yeah every inch of Canadian soil is in a way....but people of Hamilton are as friendly to Toronto as Vancouver is. Lots of Leafs fans there and most would stay that way but there is also tons of Sabers fans and im sure they would switch to Hamilton on a dot. CFL rivalry is at small scale obviously but its pretty great and im sure hockey would turn into that. On top of Hamilton there is Branford and St.Catharines that would support that team as well imo, maybe even as far as Woodstock and London.

Now do i think Bettman will ever award one to them? no way, i dont but once he is gone i can see that happen.

So your assertion is there’s lots of people in Hamilton not spending money on hockey merchandise, streaming, and tickets that would start and there’s a large untapped market of new fans there?

Because there’s currently roughly 5 million people in Atlanta not spending money on hockey in any way at the moment and I’m quite certain that’s simply something Hamilton cannot compete with.

The amount of completely new revenue the NHL has added through successful teams in Seattle and Las Vegas dwarfs anything Hamilton or Quebec City could do. Atlanta and Houston could do the same.

[Belexus75]

i never said Hamilton is better than Atlanta. i just said that your assessment of Hamilton is wrong....

if you want my assessment on the expansion as a whole when it comes to hockey and not business part of it?...i think they should contract the league by 4-8teams and not expand but that will never happen...

[2014olympicgold]

The case of "there's a lot of hockey fans in surrounding areas of Hamilton" leans into the "Buffalo won't allow it" as that's their fans by extension that would jump from Buffalo viewership to Hamilton viewership.

I would 100% go to Hamilton NHL games off the bat (work in Hamilton, live 10minutes from Hamilton), but I don't know how long it would be good for the city. The Downtown core isn't prepared for an international team to call it home. People in the city love Hamilton because it's not Toronto. I don't know how that would go if an NHL team came to the city so close to Toronto.

They're just about to spend a lot of money on renovating the local arena (Bulldogs called it home), but not to NHL standards. So in 10yrs, would they build a new arena after just spending a lot of money on updating the First Ontario Centre (Copps)? Honestly don't think the city is ready yet for something like that.

But again, I don't think Atlanta should get another shot, unless you explore other options extensively first.

[rataylor22]

i never said Hamilton is better than Atlanta. i just said that your assessment of Hamilton is wrong....

if you want my assessment on the expansion as a whole when it comes to hockey and not business part of it?...i think they should contract the league by 4-8teams and not expand but that will never happen...

Yea I know you said my assessment was wrong. You proved that by describing to me a bunch of existing NHL fans, proving my assessment of Hamilton correct.

[Belexus75]

The case of "there's a lot of hockey fans in surrounding areas of Hamilton" leans into the "Buffalo won't allow it" as that's their fans by extension that would jump from Buffalo viewership to Hamilton viewership.

I would 100% go to Hamilton NHL games off the bat (work in Hamilton, live 10minutes from Hamilton), but I don't know how long it would be good for the city. The Downtown core isn't prepared for an international team to call it home. People in the city love Hamilton because it's not Toronto. I don't know how that would go if an NHL team came to the city so close to Toronto.

They're just about to spend a lot of money on renovating the local arena (Bulldogs called it home), but not to NHL standards. So in 10yrs, would they build a new arena after just spending a lot of money on updating the First Ontario Centre (Copps)? Honestly don't think the city is ready yet for something like that.

But again, I don't think Atlanta should get another shot, unless you explore other options extensively first.

I 100% agree with you and i know it wont happen, that was why Balsillie was not allowed to purchase the Yotes dacade ago or so. But that does not make Hamilton a bad market for hockey, Buffalo and Toronto know it would work, thats why they are blocking it.