League Damaging Moves

[Fighting_Emu]

K fine let's do this:

- First off depth does NOT matter as a general rule- we do weekly starts meaning you don't fully utilize your bench and although we're 18 teams deep we literally start 6 forwards- thats it. I'll explain along the way but when you do some quick math you realize "dang- a big chunk of these players don't even qualify for the bench in our format"

- In fact some of them literally have a negative value. Take Sprong- i love his little run- love his sogs in our format- where's he actually fit though? At 230 fpts he is well below a waiver add right now. As a comparable Vatrano (whom im a fan of)- has 280fpts roght now! Yes thats right- starting Sprong (and of course hes not in the active lineup- even on a team desperately trying to retool)- actively hurts your lineups. He literally would need 50 fpts to break even with a waiver add. Thats the equivalent of about 15 points in our format- so Sprong would have to beat the odds and improve dramatically... to be on par with a waiver add. As you'll with many of these assets- they make for a great sales pitch but the numbers just don't add up...

- Protas was shopped doggedly by OP- why? Does he hate him? No he drafted him he doesn't hate him but OP is very astute and hes shopping him because at 75 some odd games hes very close to losing his farm eligibility and when he does hell require an active roster spot. Does his production right now warrant an active spot? No its light years away and even the most charitable Protas fans (which OP actually is) have to concede that as an exceptionally big man hes probably not even really that close. If Protas had toiled in the AHL for years before finally mastering that league and moving forward it'd be a different story- hed be a free keep. But he didn't and he isnt- in 25 games hell require a roster spot. At that point keeping him will? You guessed it- actively make your roster worse. Its why a gm who liked him.ebough to draft him was desperately trying to shop him. Does he make for a great sales pitch though? He sure does! Just compare him to tage thompsons unlikely breakout- omit the 3 year age gap- and voila you'd be crazy not to accept this asset right? Enjoy the dead roster spot for the next three years on what amounts at best to a low probability gamble. Thats what the farm system is for and sadly he just doesn't qualify.

- Two thirds- just did the research (with input from OP no less) and the chance of getting a useful player in our draft with a third is 5%. Let that sink in- 5%. Thats not 5% for a star ayer either thats 5% for anyone that can help at all- even as a strong bench option. Add on the fact that you likely have to wait 3-5 years for these particular assets. Add in the fact that they're not even early 3rd rounders. Op was quick to qualify during my research that his "hit rate" was closer to 70% though and you can bet dollars to doughnuts that was part of the sales pitch. Why? Because like all of the assets listed- although they have negligible actual value they sure make for a great sales pitch! Haven't you heard? Its a generational draft this year! If you do your research like OP did- youve got a 70% chance at adding a valuable piece- easy peasy- how could you refuse those odds?? But its not 70%- its 5% accross the board- you can get lucky, you can do some research to make yourself feel more confident- but when the rubber hits the road- only 5% of the players taken in this range ever amount to anything fantasy wise. Enjoy your 5% chance at a support piece in 5 years..

- Clang- OP and I had a deal fall through cause I was just unwilling to accept Clang had any value in this league. Hes got like a 6 rating on dobberprospects (is it even that high?)- and more importantly any report you read projects even his upside as that of a backup! We are in a weekly league- you need starters to have real value- and his upside is as a backup? Consider that the Penguins could really use help in net in the short term and THEY just traded him! Enjoy your 5% chance at a ba kup in 3-5 years! reminder this is a weekly starts league so you cant even eke the value out of a good backup like you could in other formats- you start him all week for better or worse or hes riding the pines. Were now attributing value to a piece here whose optimistic outcome is waiting on your bench for the actual starter to miss time. Goalies have value in our league- but jesus- that IS a stretch...

The above assets are not quantity for quality (a concept that doesn't have any bearing in our format anyways)- they are window dressing, garnish- the proverbial lipstick on the pig. Is it sinking in yet that their inclusion has less to do with their value and more to do with the sales pitch? So let's talk about the pigitself because some.have correctly pointed out there is ACTUAL value involved...

- I like the next three assets including Durzi but let's be realistic about what he brings to the table. OP JUST added him off the wire two weeks prior. I think that at least said something about his perceived value. So let's look at his actual value- hes got 240fpts- where as the best d option on waivers has 230fpts- its not much (not.much at all really) but for the forst time so far we can say "this player is at least an upgrade from the waiver wore" and were not fibbing. Add in his youth and upside and I think he's a legit asset. Where does he realistically fit on a strong team though? 4th dman? A solid bench option/injury replacement? I like him for a bit of upside but does anyone believe he's got the ability to be a core piece?? Keep in mind that this team had the pieces to make a real offer here. Also keep in mind the return- which well get to- cause its sure as sh*t no injury replacement level asset...

- Garand- Not my favorite asset but ill give credit where credits due- goalies are worth a ton and OP used a (late) first round pick on him. That has value. How much value though? I mean hes stuck behind (checks notes) Igor Shesterkin!? Give me a realistic percent chance hes a starting goalie- like 20% maybe? That actually feels generous. Now how many years before he gets there? 5+? This player has value but not nearly the amount OP makes it out to be.

- Lastly we have Lettermaki. I won't even crap all over this prospect. Hes... fine. I will say even his fans don't project him to even come close to Evander Kane production.

Evander Kane is 30- hes in a prime- he clears 30 goals- and he clears 300 sogs pace on a regular basis. We score goals4, assists 3, and aogs1- this league has about as big a sog bias as I've ever seen. In his last healthy season he was the 8th best winger in our format. Hes a beast plain and simple- he plays with Mcjesus for Frick sakes- he could add 10 goals and 20 points on the back of that alone. This player deserved a real quality for quality trade. Durzi, lettermaki and garand DO have value but not enough for a core piece in his prime- a top ten option in a format that rewards having the highest quality players- its not even actually that close if we're being real.

If the premise was goaltending help- askarov was right there! If the premise was real farm depth- this team has Rachel, peterka, kemmel, Tomasino- you could have actually built a trade like that. I wouldn't accept something like that- but its at least legit! This is league breaker and the best asset you got for your rebuild was lettermaki??!!

I'm done beating around the bush here: OP exploited his knowledge of the contextual data like farm eligibility and oversold opinion based data like how effective a prospect will be or how long hell take- to put forth a trade he himself would never consider. Those trades are bunk plain and simple. No one with a comprehensive knowledge of prospects and/or how.pur syst works makes this trade! And its like the third one lmao! The Stamkos one is literally worse!!

So is the onus on OP to offer a fair trade? I guess it isn't but when you're constantly closing deals you'd never consider in the light of day I think that warrants a conversation and thats literally all iasked for- no vetoes, no trade commission, no burning at the stake- a conversation but to reiterate THIS was easier. Pointing fingers and staging a whole phony idea that my trade was in anyway predatory. My trade does stand on its own- does his? Why is OP chiming in about everything BUT that?

Given minimal context and some league appropriate data its clear to anyone who wants to take the time to look- that his offer was bunk. Argue about the rest if you want but don't try and tell me it was fair or as he likes to out it: an overpay. It was a ho hum prospect, a waiver add/depth dman, an intriguing g prospect that looks to be 5 years away at best and a whole bunch of nothing for a player who could very well win him the title this year. And for the next 5 years.

I've accepted these bad offers- dont get me wrong! I've contributed more Evander Kane to OP than maybe the rest of the league combined which is precisely why I'm so adamant about calling a spade a spade here. If I hadn't realized I was getting fleeced over and over again I'd be stuck in the same position. Send all the crappy offers you want but if you insist on calling them overpay ill be happy to correct you each and every time

[chuckcouples]

Just so we can compare apples to apples, how many fantasy points does Evander Kane have over the past two seasons? How many fantasy points does Sean Durzi have over the last two seasons?

[Fighting_Emu]

Rldr version? I don't blame you haha!

Quantity for quality trades rarely work in a weekly start 6 forward league to begin with.

- 5 of those assets have either negative, nil or infintesmally small amount of value. A better presentation of that trade is Durzi, Lettermaki , and Garand for Kane

- Kane has a tremendous amount of value in our sog biased format- 8th best winger last time he was healthy

- The crux of my whole issue is that OP ci sisterly makes (and co.etes) offers he would never consider himself. I have proof because he's made said offers to me
If you need more consider that in 15 years hes never cometeted a 4 for 1, 5 for 1, 6 for 1, or 7for 1 offer where he gives up the 1. This year alone hes completed 4 the other way.

My whole premise is that if you wouldn't consider it- its a bunk offer. Op would say (and has said)- thats fantasy hockey baby! Whatever camp you're in (its clear where i am)- I think it becomes clear why its disenheartening to see so many going through this year. Thats it- my trades are not always gems but they do pass that simple litmus test. Not casting anyone as a villain eother- i just think one day our league will get to the point where these offers end up where they belong- in the recycle bin- and the sooner we get there the better for everyone.

[Fighting_Emu]

Just so we can compare apples to apples, how many fantasy points does Evander Kane have over the past two seasons? How many fantasy points does Sean Durzi have over the last two seasons?

I've got no beef with you- you're a great poster. If you think Durzi is worth Kane thats your choice.

Its becoming clear to me with my rep though that the only discourse im going to get trolls like twink humper or good posters taking their shot to tae me down. Because I'm the villain- I disagreed with a writer (more than once!)- I dont always take the advice thats given to me- I sometimes even have the nerve to get worked up lol! Why would someone chime in and agree with that guy? Hey honestly- Im not even sure I would! But I came here for actual intellectual discourse and although that still goes on here- its not really in the cards for grumpy old emu these days. Maybe I just need a break but I'm kind of tired of being the villain- I actually had a really good year (after a lot of very bad ones- self imposed)- and this just isn't the creative outlet it used to be- its a great site and an invaluable tool but I came here to explore different ideas and thats not happening if someone with my reputation is involved- haha! I sure ill lurk around now and then but I doe for a good long while with the posting... yall can rejoice haha...

[Fighting_Emu]

Durzi for Evander Kane is not an apples to apples argument- yes they have the same fpts over the last two seasons- if you include 3 seasons when Kane was healthy and of course that changes the data set meaningfully but thats not what you're aiming for anyways.

Here's an apples to apples argument:

Be honest- dont try to beat emu- dont try and slay the dragon here- just be honest- when was the last time an 8 for 1 trade made sense for the team getting 8 assets? Conventional wisdom says bpa wins the deal around here and in that context its not close at all. When we advise people asking on advise about 2 for 1s or 3 for 1s- what do we say? You need to include value above replacement, you need to factor in how meaningful an active roster spot is, you have to account for how many keepers, how many starting players- but generally speaking a 2 for 1 or a 3 for 1 is not a great idea. This is... an 8 for 1. Now ask yourself- if there was a place for an 8 for 1- what type of league would that need to be? Very deep for sure, probably a keep all dynasty? You'd need to have a ton of starting positions where you're eking out every iota of value. We start 12 players. I'll say that again- we start 12 players and this GM just traded 8 for 1. The best active player in the deal (and I LIKE Durzi)- is outscoring the waiver wire by 10 fpts- that might up as 15 by the end of the year? 20 if he's really lucky? Last time Kane was healthy he beat out the waiver wire by 120 fpts. He was (yep im gonna say it again)- the 8th best winger in our format. Think of the mental gymnastics you have to do just to say:

This prospect with minimal value plus this prospect with minimal value plus this prospect with minimal value plus this late third rounder plus this late third rounder plus this sort of intriguing goalie prospect, plus this solid depth dman plus this decent prospect (Lettermaki) have equivalent value to this player with immense value.

Take me out of it- my reputation. Take out my player valuations and biases...

This is... an EIGHT... for ONE trade in a league where we start 12 skaters... WEEKLY!

The mental jumping jacks youd have to do to quantify eight separate low to mid tier assets for one exceptional one is astounding. Ive literally never seen one posted on here that has garnered any type of support in all my years here. Its. Just. Never. Happened.

Only now when emu posts it- THIS 8 for 1 makes sense. This time it doesnt matter that two of the assets are already producing well below the waiver wires level of production. It doesnt matter that the best active asset outgoing only has 10 more fpts than his waiver equivalent. It doesnt matter that Team A gives up their best winger (player?) for Team Bs SIXTH best D and some leftover ramen noodles. It doesnt matter that even the best prospect involved doesnt project to be in the same tier as Kane even at his peak. This time it makes sense? This time... eight assets were worth it for one premier one? According to chucouples (a great poster here!)- Durzi was worth it- by himself! really? Well that took a turn! It all sais a lot more about my reputation than it does about this trade... this 8 for 1 trade...

This trade was just a very very good sales pitch and if anyone involveedasks me why ill be happy to take the time to explain cause thats how you learn not to do.it again
Thats literally how I learned. In the meantime I think my time heres run its course...

[chuckcouples]

I'm not trying to argue with you but since you won't post the actual fantasy numbers for the past two seasons (also known as Durzi's entire NHL career), it tells me that Durzi has more fantasy points than Kane over the past 2 NHL seasons.

Here are Evander Kane's games played over the past 6 seasons:

78, 75, 64, 56, 43, 41 (if he doesn't miss another game)

Kane will be 32 next season. His value is only going down. Ignore the fact that one team got 8 assets and that half of them have no value right now. Sean Durzi on his own has been more valuable to any team competing for a championship in your league over the past two seasons. That will likely continue for the next 5 years. The fact that the GM who traded Kane was able to get 7 other assets which will either provide positive value in the future or can be dropped for nothing only makes the trade even better.


There were multiple 4 or 5 for 1 deals in my 31 team dynasty league this trade deadline and I would say that the team getting the multiple assets won all of those trades.

[Fighting_Emu]

I'm not trying to argue with you but since you won't post the actual fantasy numbers for the past two seasons (also known as Durzi's entire NHL career), it tells me that Durzi has more fantasy points than Kane over the past 2 NHL seasons.

Here are Evander Kane's games played over the past 6 seasons:

78, 75, 64, 56, 43, 41 (if he doesn't miss another game)

Kane will be 32 next season. His value is only going down. Ignore the fact that one team got 8 assets and that half of them have no value right now. Sean Durzi on his own has been more valuable to any team competing for a championship in your league over the past two seasons. That will likely continue for the next 5 years. The fact that the GM who traded Kane was able to get 7 other assets which will either provide positive value in the future or can be dropped for nothing only makes the trade even better.


There were multiple 4 or 5 for 1 deals in my 31 team dynasty league this trade deadline and I would say that the team getting the multiple assets won all of those trades.

So youre alleging Durzi for Kane IS worth it on its own?

[Fighting_Emu]

I'm not trying to argue with you but since you won't post the actual fantasy numbers for the past two seasons (also known as Durzi's entire NHL career), it tells me that Durzi has more fantasy points than Kane over the past 2 NHL seasons.

Here are Evander Kane's games played over the past 6 seasons:

78, 75, 64, 56, 43, 41 (if he doesn't miss another game)

Kane will be 32 next season. His value is only going down. Ignore the fact that one team got 8 assets and that half of them have no value right now. Sean Durzi on his own has been more valuable to any team competing for a championship in your league over the past two seasons. That will likely continue for the next 5 years. The fact that the GM who traded Kane was able to get 7 other assets which will either provide positive value in the future or can be dropped for nothing only makes the trade even better.


There were multiple 4 or 5 for 1 deals in my 31 team dynasty league this trade deadline and I would say that the team getting the multiple assets won all of those trades.

There I bolded the relavant data. There is a small window of formats where these trades make sense. A league where we start literally 12 skaters- weekly with a 10 man bench is NOT one of them.

[DangerCat]

So youre alleging Durzi for Kane IS worth it on its own?

Well if his FPTS are more than Kane’s since the trade…well…then….yeah I think that’s a fair assessment. Man has been injured what 2 times on EDM now? When he’s healthy he CAN be a beast. When he’s not in trouble for betting illegally on his own games he CAN be a beast. Lekkerimaki projects to be a 20-30 goal scorer. Will he get there…nobody knows. Durzi has more points than Kane over the Past two seasons…as a D-man. We can blame injuries and whatever we want but that’s it. If OP was willing to take a chance on the troublesome winger who CAN be a multicat stud and the bottom team was willing to accept a prospect who more than likely will probably out produce Kane’s numbers due to injury and stupidity, and a defenseman who is an up and coming player on and up and coming team (who has accrued more points than Kane has &#129300 and a solid G prospect in Garand and even if he threw in a bunch of gimmicks, and whether it works in your format or not is beside the point, then why is this fleecing the bottom feeder? Cause OP knew protas was close to his GP threshold? Protas certainly wasn’t the centrepiece. Maybe the bottom feeder should do his homework and perhaps that’s why he’s never in the playoffs. I don’t understand your indignation with the OP he even left you anonymous and was more curious than anything about the situation. The Kane trade was more than fair and to say otherwise is you just attacking OP for whatever reason you have to do so. I just don’t understand why you’re so fired up about this trade.

[Fighting_Emu]

I'm fired up because aside from just being bad- which it is- its a trade that OP would never consoder if roles were reversed. I just think offers like that are bunk- and I feel that way cause I've accepted more than my fair share of them. I know first hand what its like to end up with bit pieces cause you bought into a really convincing sales pitch. So if OP is going to insist on sending offers hed never consider the he can do that- but I'm not going to sit there and "tow the party line". It was a brutal offer- that became a brutal deal and the sooner those of us on the receiving end of those deals wise up to whats happening the better. I think its disenheartening league wide to see one team co sisterly make lop sided trades but again this was never about blaming him for being too effective of a trader- this was about saying two things:

-This trade (among others) was brutal. I hope the other gm sees that eventually and learns how to handle those five alarm sales pitches better- i know i did!

- And two my trade does not fall in that same category. Do I send out winning offers constantly? No I don't but I put them through a simple litmus test- would I consider this offer or even this premise for an offer if roles were reversed? It doesn't mean I don't send bad ofders- sometimes I get overly excited about my own assets or I want to exaggerate a short coming of theirs- but I at least ask that question. OP does not- and I think those trades are just stale at this point.

If they're so good then why do they never go the other way?


All I all I've said my piece (and then some). Its a great league and apparently no one else is worried about this- i mean apparently its not even a thing right? Just hope we all continue to grow and improve as a league and if one owner seems to have an edge via trades I guess I'll just stfu about it lol! I had a point but by the time I read all this it sounds like sour grapes- so I'm done- lol!

For those of you who unironically think Durzi for Kane is legit- I couldn't help you if i wanted to haha!

[EichelTower]

I'm fired up because aside from just being bad- which it is- its a trade that OP would never consider if roles were reversed. I just think offers like that are bunk

Spare us.

In November you traded away Anti Raanta and Dominik Kubalik for Shane Wright.

Roles are reversed now- would you like to trade Wright for those two?

Would it even be close?

[Fighting_Emu]

When I was competing i traded draisaitl for worse players to help me compete.

Wright is more volatile then slaf and Kubalik is STILL a healthy upgrade from the waiver wire- im not going to pretend i don't prefer my side but it had merit- I WOULD (and have) considered trades like that when I'm.competing.

You're offers are unrepentedtly bad - they're designed so you cant lose them. But yea iff you want to rewrite history now that there's an audience thatd be about on brand.

Spare us? Sure bud- you're spared...
- - - Updated - - -

[Fighting_Emu]

I want to address the Kubalik trade in the small hope that the GM I traded ever reads this. Ive suspected for a long time he was getting negative feedback on that trade and I even reached out asking if he wanted to talk about it/still felt it was fair. If anyone approached that GM and said it was a "bad trade" or a "fleecing" theyre rewriting history and I just hope these GMs can at least see there are two sides to this story and the one being espoused by OP certainly is almost certainly motivated bt self interest.

Kubalik- was not a depth piece at the time of the trade- he was indeed a waiver add but he was on like 120 point pace! Does anyone actually remember that? For months he was firing at over 100 point pace and its zenith it was like 120 or something. I dont care who you are or what the players name is- when a guys firing at 120 (at 27 no less AND with an ioptimistic offensive hiostory in hios short term rearview)- that player is HARD to move on from. My ego had just taken a hit by passing on Terry and Thompson cause I just ASSUMED they were depth pieces and here comes Kubalik fresh on a new team in a new situation- scoring at over 100 point pace! It was extremely difficult to move him in a rebuild. Even by the time I conceded that maybe I should consider moving him (not a plan everyone on here supported ftr)- I maintained two things:
1- That even if he wasnt a 100 or even 90 point player that I DID think he had taken a step up to being closer to a 30 goal, 70 point player- a pace that certainly has value in our format. Thats well documented on here. I also said if he really is a 70 point player now on Detroit than hes at least got the potential to break 80 now and then- maybe hit 90 once in his career.
2- I admitted I didnt KNOW for sure! It was possible he was breaking out at age 27- Marchand did it- Kuzmenko IS doing it- it happens- lol!
Now that hes settled back into a 60ish point pace its easy to rewrite history and say thats what he always was- but that was NOT the case. He paced for over a 100 for something like 2 months or more. That GM had(has) a great team that looked poised to compete this year- so adding a guy that many people felt could get 80 or 90 this season was not that bad of a move!

Raanta- Now I had Kubalik for Wright in the Q... and I couldnt press send. i asked mylsef that question- "would I consider this move if roles were reversed?" and I said Id be soooo tempted (and like I said Ive certainly made worse myself)- but trading a waiver guy for an early draft pick doesnt have great optics- I just wasnt sure Id really consider it despite the temptation. So I added Raanta. Now Im not saying Raanta is a gamebreaker but given that the GM in question was positioning himself to compete I thought it made sense. He has ACTUAL value for a contender. I traded for him myself and had him as a keeper because goalies are absolute gold in this format, he had some great numbers over his career, and although I had given up on him being a starter (where the real value lies)- I was optimistic that he played behind a very injury prone Frederik Andersen and I figured when called upon hed have no problem putting up solid numbers behind a fantastic Canes squad. Now that didnt happen- Im still not sure why he struggled so much- but no one involved in the trade figured Raanta would struggle the way he did. He did contribute later on but unfortunately the GM in question was out of the hunt by then. Those are two pieces with tangible (ACTUAL) value that were moved. Im not going to say Raanta is some second coming of Roy- but on a contending team that needed help goaltending (future is very bright but present day has question marks)- he was a known quantity- if Andersen were injured (and you could almost bank on that) you could probably get a handful of weeks worth of starts out of him- thats all he really had to contribute as Kubalik was a very solid "bring in" bet on his own. Indid feel like adding a keeper and a goalie helped legitamize the deal for both sides and I stand by that. Raantas value specifically has taken a hit since then but no one knew that was going to happen when we finalized this.

Which brings us to the return? So we give up a 27 yo pacing for over 100 and we add a solid goalie component- what kind of cant miss, scoring superstar did I get back? Well I got...

Shane Wright- First things first- I AM happy with Sghane Wright- Im rebuilding and he projects as a very "safe" scoring line player and he has put up "franchise" type numbers at points in his career. Whats his realistic outlook though?

Well if you ask most experts theyre answers are invariably very... carefully phrased. OP would love to suggest that Wright was hyped up as an offensive gamebreaker- a borderline "franchise/generational" guy- but is he? Well the two things you look for in that type of player are video game numbers in the lower tiered leagues and/or a "thing" theyre known for that they can do better that anyone else- a "thing" that projects well at the NHL level- AOs one timer, Matthews eccentric wrister, McDavids speed, Crosbys playmaking/loweer body/backhanders/ and ability o basically improve any aspect of his game to being elite over time (lol!). So video game numbers? Sort of? He had goofy numbers in his pre-CHL days and did qualify for exceptional status but once he got there- he was pretty average. Dont get me wrong 66 points in 58 games for an underager is ridiculously good but when we look at an elite/cant miss prospect were looking for a season where he posted unseemly type numbers... and that just didnt happen. His 94 in 63 he posted in his next/last year of major junior is very good- especially when you consider he missed a season of development duee to covid- but theyre not exactly unseemly. Theyre very good- like a lot of great prospects! That might be the biggest reason he dropped. So then you ask- "well ok howd he get those points? Whats his "thing"?" and the answer is... he got them very quietly- lol! hes not flashy, he doesnt sacrifice defensive postioning to gain a step offensively, hes got a great shot but not an elite one- if theres one thing you can point to I guess its his hockey IQ- lol! He plays a strong, complete, two way game- heavy on defensive positioning with great hustling AND he can score while doing it. "So youre saying- his "thing" isnt even his offensive game?'. Well when you consider that many scouts considered him the defacto number two center (offensively) by the tiem the season wrapped up in Frontenac- then yea I guess thats what Im saying. So is he a bust offensively? No I dont think so. I think he represents a very safe and projectable floor- I think theres a chance he finds a way to acclimate to the NHL and score more if thats the way his development/team needs go based on that high hockey iq/work ethic- but I think his true value is that hes a winner in all zones on the ice and that he can still be counted on for 70 points- maybe 80 points in his prime. Can he hit 90 or better? Maybe- as an owner Ill admit that I certainly HOPE so but I read a lot on these forums and hfboards and Ill put out the caveat that the guys who actually watch him play lean more on the NO side- by a landslide. Ive never heard a supposedly elite prospect termed as overhyped more than I have with Wright. Ive heard Bergeron comparisons a bunch- my player pick du jour for Wright is Toews personally. Do those players have value in our format? Absolutely- but theyre not the gamebreakers that hes being made out to be by inferring I acquired him in a "league damaging move" Its a lot more likely he ends up as a 70 point center whose in the 40ish range overall for Cs in our league- Ill take that- Ill build around that- but you need to consider the cost at the time before you bandy about the term league damaging trade.

The irony here is that at 27 on a Red Wings roster that is in a constant state of flux- Kubalik could still end up as a 70 point asset! Even if he settles in at closer to 65 with variance of 10 points or so up or down... you could basically be describing Wright for the next three years! Even after that its not impossible to think thats where he ends up- lol! Now dont get me wrong- like I said- Id prefer to gamble on Wright in my rebuild but I am saying that if OP were still competing this trade has a very different feel- even with the present player production outcomes. That matters:

Im not sure the player names here matter much as nowadays ANY solid prospect for "here and now" help would be construed as a bad trade for this GM...and he had no problem telling me that- lol! I dint write this for OP or the boards- I wrote it in the small chance the other GM reads it. When he was competing I thought this trade made sense for him. I did NOT know exactly what I had in Kubalik just like I still dont know exactly what I have in Wright. Had the shoe been on the other foot I WOULD have considered this proposal. If theres a bad taste in said GMs mouth about the trade I hope the takeaway is "I wish I decided sooner that I was going to focus on youth" and not "Emu fleeced me for my bonafide superstud!"

I didnt (and still dont) believe that was the case. Ive made many trades that I regret myself- Ive LOST many trades but this did have the potential to go either way and in a way it still does- but this DID pass my litmus test. I WOULD consider it if roles were reversed and that matters.

[Bag Skate]

I admire the passion and time you are taking. I don’t see why people attack you for your opinions and maybe going against the grain sometimes. Nobody is right all the time.

[GinFizz]

im so freaking lost. not sure why i put myself thru reading that..