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Thread: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

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    Default Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    Gotta say, this is not a good look on Provy

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    "I respect everyone and everyones choices", except apparently he just won't support them... lol.
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    There's a lot here I won't touch as I think what Provorov did set the NHL back bringing more people who mean worse than Provorov to become fans of his (check out Twitter). But something I am interested with is how the NHL will react to this. In the CBA, Article 7:

    7.2. Neither the NHLPA, the NHL, nor any Club shall discriminate in the interpretation or application of this Agreement against or in favor of any Player because of religion, race, disability, color, national origin, sex, sexual orientation, age, marital status, or membership or non-membership in or support of or non-support of any labor organization.

    Curious if the NHL does something here, because I'm sure you can argue that Provorov didn't meet the CBA agreement. But can kinda argue the other way too. This is a huge step for the NHL, and a ripple effect will be how this effects the women's side of hockey as a lot of the Canadian National Women's team works with the NHL, that are in the LGBTQ+ community.

    Also, free speech isn't a thing when you are employed by a business who can fine you for free speech towards officials. That's a weird argument for me. Also free speech doesn't allow you to go unpunished, that's not new (from a business, free speech is gov't based with restrictions).
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    As a Flyers fan... with them having Provorov in the clubhouse... there's a culture that's going to create some friction.
    One has to worry how far "up" it goes. Obviously PHI has had pride nights in the past.
    And obv PHI had extended Provorov some years ago.

    Arizona drafting Mitchell Miller...
    Boston signing Mitchell Miller...
    Montreal drafting Logan Mailloux..

    With GMs and ownership groups - there's one clear point...

    Some teams have a culture of "Just get the guys that'll help us win"
    Some teams have a culture of "We want guys that'll help us win... but those people must also be of a certain character..."
    And some teams are finding out, thankfully, that there's backlash from fans, players, etc - if they haven't clearly instilled that 2nd clause.

    It's just brutal to be a Flyers fan these days.
    I'm really not sure why I'm still hanging on...

    (re: Provorov's views... IDK... people have views... moreso for Provorov... I just wish he would've had some gay friends growing up... if you don't mix yourself in with the "all" of society - you end up growing up without knowing that things could be better than you might be perceiving them. I'm not sure what to do with that... but this is why inclusivity is important.)

    "Love" is just a whole lot of time invested in something.
    But I need a new team. I just can't love the Flyers any longer.
    Sigh.

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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    @P7
    A couple of things:
    - Philly has had pride nights, but warmups were done in normal jerseys, with pride tape as the only thing players had, and it was optional. Provorov likely skipped this, took warmups and it was never caught as some people might have done this out of superstitions (which is a sin in the Orthodox religion, but that's beside the point).

    - NHL editorial Manager for SBNation Steph Driver has mentioned in the past that Provorov isn't well liked in the Flyers locker room.
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    Maybe they can work out the whole 'being best friends with a murderous psychopath" with Ovechkin first and then circle back to this one.

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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    With respect to 7.2 of the agreement, the question is whether Provorov was treated differently because of Provorov's religion, race, disability, etc. Did Provorov suffer any negative event due to the acts of the NHLPA, NHL, or the Flyers? Has he been fined or anything? Provorov doesn't have any beef until he gets treated differently. And then if he does (let's say, a fine for not wearing the jersey), then perhaps he has a claim that he was singled out due to religion. But if there is other contractual language that requires participation in promotional events, then the league/team would seem to have a competing argument, that Provorov would be fined because of his failure to meet his contractual obligation. Does a claimed religious objection permit the breach of a labor agreement?

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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    The League's response to the whole situation.

    https://twitter.com/frank_seravalli/...41082767089665

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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    @P7
    A couple of things:
    - Philly has had pride nights, but warmups were done in normal jerseys, with pride tape as the only thing players had, and it was optional. Provorov likely skipped this, took warmups and it was never caught as some people might have done this out of superstitions (which is a sin in the Orthodox religion, but that's beside the point).

    - NHL editorial Manager for SBNation Steph Driver has mentioned in the past that Provorov isn't well liked in the Flyers locker room.

    Yeah... and for clarity of my own post, both the Flyers and Provorov put each other into a difficult situation.
    The whole thing was just bungled badly by a shitty organization.
    Teams that haven't looked out for overall character are finding themselves (and some of there personnel) looking bad in these kind of situations.
    It's a "Flyers" problem first & foremost.

    For Provorov, maybe its a good time to explore who he is and how he has to represent it publicly. He had to go through a big step there last night.
    Today - he'll have a feeling, he'll probably reflect on it. He'll know & grow on how today feels for him.
    Athletes (ex. Tim Hardaway) have been through things like this... there's always learning & maturing that can be done.

    But... this is still primarily a Flyers-problem that they likely knew about, let fester, and didn't have a good plan for themselves or Provorov to deal with it.

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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by senryu View Post
    With respect to 7.2 of the agreement, the question is whether Provorov was treated differently because of Provorov's religion, race, disability, etc. Did Provorov suffer any negative event due to the acts of the NHLPA, NHL, or the Flyers? Has he been fined or anything? Provorov doesn't have any beef until he gets treated differently. And then if he does (let's say, a fine for not wearing the jersey), then perhaps he has a claim that he was singled out due to religion. But if there is other contractual language that requires participation in promotional events, then the league/team would seem to have a competing argument, that Provorov would be fined because of his failure to meet his contractual obligation. Does a claimed religious objection permit the breach of a labor agreement?
    This is what I'm curious about. It could go either way, and it opens the door to a lot of stuff. Military nights, BLM nights, Indigenous nights. There's a lot of these in the NHL, and it could get real messy.
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Yeah... and for clarity of my own post, both the Flyers and Provorov put each other into a difficult situation.
    The whole thing was just bungled badly by a shitty organization.
    Teams that haven't looked out for overall character are finding themselves (and some of there personnel) looking bad in these kind of situations.
    It's a "Flyers" problem first & foremost.

    For Provorov, maybe its a good time to explore who he is.
    Athletes (ex. Tim Hardaway) have been through things like this... there's always learning & maturing that can be done.

    But... this is still primarily a Flyers-problem that they likely knew about, let fester, and didn't have a good plan for themselves or Provorov to deal with it.
    They def knew this was coming. There's promo videos filmed weeks ago for Pride night, and Provorov is an Alternative Captain, he would have been talked to about participating in this stuff.

    Huge bungled by all 3 parties. But you're right, this could be a learning experience for Provorov,
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    Quote Originally Posted by senryu View Post
    With respect to 7.2 of the agreement, the question is whether Provorov was treated differently because of Provorov's religion, race, disability, etc. Did Provorov suffer any negative event due to the acts of the NHLPA, NHL, or the Flyers? Has he been fined or anything? Provorov doesn't have any beef until he gets treated differently. And then if he does (let's say, a fine for not wearing the jersey), then perhaps he has a claim that he was singled out due to religion. But if there is other contractual language that requires participation in promotional events, then the league/team would seem to have a competing argument, that Provorov would be fined because of his failure to meet his contractual obligation. Does a claimed religious objection permit the breach of a labor agreement?
    A labor agreement that requires one to violate their religious beliefs would face heavy, HEAVY scrutiny under U.S. law. Unless the religious belief at issue substantially prevents one from doing the job they were hired to do, it's extremely difficult to legally mess with a protected class under U.S. labor law (such as one's religious beliefs) in the interest of conformity.
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    I'm hearing the NHL has called in these two to further investigate. Possible bounty on Provorov's head being discussed. Details to follow.....

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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    NHL released a statement today about it. Pretty much saying the way the NHL has implemented the Promotional events is that it's up to the club how they implement it, and the League allows players to participate or not, and it's the club's decision to deal with punishments or not when a "Provorov situation" comes up
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    I'm in no-way religious and I don't agree with Provorov but the Flyers have put him in a no win situation. He goes on the ice: he doesn't stay true to his shitty believes or he doesn't go on the ice : looks like the f-ass he really is.

    For me, it's an easy decisions but I can understand why you want to stay the way that you are.
    They didn't ask you to marry another dude that night, they just asked you to go on the ice with a rainbow jersey for 2-3 mins.
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    Default Re: Provorov won't support Gay Pride

    This is so messy. It's kind of why hockey shouldn't put themselves through this. It's fine for them to come out and have pride nights, which Provorov participated in warmups and played in during the past but to make mandatory representation a part of it, might be a bridge to far.

    Although I don't agree but if your religion is against what pride stands for than it should be your choice to participate, which it was. However, just by the notable exclusion you knew it was going to be highlight in media and cause a sh*t storm. Provorov is already now getting attacked for it. We got to remember the NHL is full of international players who were brought up very differently than most in Canada or the USA for that matter.
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