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Thread: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

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    Default Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    Hey guys,

    For team #1 in my signature I was offered his Kucherov for my MacKinnon one for one. It is a points only league with the following cats: G=3, A=2, GWG=1.
    Which player do you prefer for the rest of the season?
    TEAM 1:

    C:
    MacKinnon, J. Hughes, Hintz, Scheifele
    LW: Connor, Panarin, Verhaeghe, Kubalik
    RW: Laine, Bratt, Kuzmenko, Lehkonen

    D: Josi, Burns, Chabot, Karlsson, Gostisbehere,
    Gustafsson
    G: Vanecek, Andersen
    BN: R. Smith,
    Cozens, Sheary, Backstrom
    IR: Skinner


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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    I prefer Kuch for sure but would that put you in a hole at C with too many Ws?

    Edit: maybe not with Cozens on the bench
    12 team dynasty, H2H points, no cap, no max games
    12F (4 slots per pos), 6D, 2G, 32 players + 21 minor slots, minors eligibility <80 GP
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    W: Draisaitl, Ehlers, Dubois, Buchnevich, Necas, Debrusk, McCann, Jarvis
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    G: Ullmark, Hart, Grubauer, Korpisalo

    Prospects:
    Knies, Reichel, Kemell, Robertson
    Sandstrom

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    Nope not for me. I still think Mack holds more value than Kuch and is likelier to post higher G totals the rest of the way.

    COL is about to get healthy (ish) again and I can see Mack going supernova as they claw their way back into the playoffs.

    Kuch will be solid (and hopefully stays healthy) so it's not like you'd "lose" this - but considering how close they'll likely be, I'll take the odds on Mack hitting an extra gear the rest of the way over Kuch.
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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    I’d want Kuch rest of the season

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    I think they're close enough that you should go with whatever position you feel is the bigger need for your squad.

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    keep Mack, equal talents IMO but this is based purely off age comparison where you get a few more peak years from Nathan in theory.

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    Mackinnon should definitely have a higher goal to assist ratio which is a factor in your scoring. Hes also less injury prone- seems like kucherov has turned a corner but why take on the risk for no reason? Also I feel like with his supporting cast we can see better totals from mack still lol! I know its crazy but that team is loaded for bear!!

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    I'd have to go with MacK for the reasons stated above. Could hit that extra gear with a healthy and stacked top six and pump up his goal totals the rest of the way. Can't go wrong or lose in this trade but I would hold.
    32 Team Salary Cap Dynasty - Fantrax
    Start: 12F, 6D, 2G - Scoring: G/A 1, SOG/Hit/Blk 0.1, W/SHO 1, SV 0.05

    F:
    Bemstrom, Meier, Danault, Fantilli, Di Giuseppe, Greenway,
    Hischier, W. Johnston, P. Kane, Marchment,
    Palat, Seguin, Blackwell, Merela, Reaves.

    D:
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    N. Lundkvist, Walman, Schmidt, Emberson.

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting_Emu View Post
    Mackinnon should definitely have a higher goal to assist ratio which is a factor in your scoring. Hes also less injury prone- seems like kucherov has turned a corner but why take on the risk for no reason? Also I feel like with his supporting cast we can see better totals from mack still lol! I know its crazy but that team is loaded for bear!!
    Not sure what world we're living in when MacKinnon isn't as injury prone as Kucherov, or will definitely have a higher goal output. Kucherov's supporting cast this year is arguably better as well.

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    Coin flip and they should post similar points for your categories.

    I'll gamble on MacKinnon though only because Colorado is at risk of missing playoffs and I think that could benefit MacKinnon the rest of this season.
    14 team, H2H, daily start, min. 3 goalie appearances, 3 Keepers (round drafted+3) with 1 Goalie max.
    G, A, P, PPP, +/-, PIM, SOG, Hits // W, SV, GAA, SV%, SHO

    3C: Norris, Danault, Barbashev (LW)
    3RW: Tippett (LW), Roy, Frederic
    3LW: Knies, Ehlers, Foegele
    4D: Dobson, Gostisbehere, Orlov, Power
    2G: Lyon, Husso
    1Util: M. Foligno (LW, RW)
    4Bench: Brossoit, Werenski, Marchenko, Rossi
    2IR: Zegras

    Keepers: Dobson (6th), Tippett (11th), Norris (14th)

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    With Mac already having had his annual injury, I prefer him slightly to Kuch for ROS and given the categories
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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    Quote Originally Posted by saucelife90 View Post
    Not sure what world we're living in when MacKinnon isn't as injury prone as Kucherov, or will definitely have a higher goal output. Kucherov's supporting cast this year is arguably better as well.
    No clue what world you're living in and not especially interested either lmao! But if kucherovs injury problems aren't an issue for you then we know at least the drugs are good- haha!!! I'm entitled to an opinion and really have no intention of responding to something worded so adversarial. If you want to calm the Frick down and maybe have an actual.discussion id love to hear why you think to has a better supporting cast cause I really don't see it. Until then yes I like mackinnon for goals going forward and since I'm in leagues that you have to pay money to join ill choose to acknowledge that kucherov does in fact have a horrendous injury history. If that offends your sensibilities as a proud koochy owner thats actually your issue...

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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting_Emu View Post
    No clue what world you're living in and not especially interested either lmao! But if kucherovs injury problems aren't an issue for you then we know at least the drugs are good- haha!!! I'm entitled to an opinion and really have no intention of responding to something worded so adversarial. If you want to calm the Frick down and maybe have an actual.discussion id love to hear why you think to has a better supporting cast cause I really don't see it. Until then yes I like mackinnon for goals going forward and since I'm in leagues that you have to pay money to join ill choose to acknowledge that kucherov does in fact have a horrendous injury history. If that offends your sensibilities as a proud koochy owner thats actually your issue...
    I'm saying Kucherov's injuries are no more or less of a concern than MacKinnon's. If you're concerned for one, you should be equally concerned for the other. One of them has already missed 12 games this year, and it's not Kucherov...

    One is scoring at a 0.36 G/GP clip and the other is at 0.41 G/GP. I'll let you guess who is who, but it's close enough to call it a wash if one gets hot and pots 2 goals (Like MacKinnon today).

    Landeskog hasn't played a game for the Avs (with no timetable to return), and Nichushkin has been hurt for close to 2/3rds of them. Both being out hurts the Avs top PP unit, and in turn, MacKinnon's totals. (Their PP at one point went 4 for 42... Not ideal) That's why I give an edge to Kucherov's supporting cast this year.

    Again, with the Avs getting healthy and everything "normalizing" they're pretty much equal to the point where position needs would be the deciding factor.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Nate vs Kuch (Rep where I can)

    I see your point and I agree... to an extent.

    I didn't know mack was THAT injury prone but upon closer inspection- yes- you really have to allow for missing some man games played when drafting him. That being said I do think its different when kucherov missed a whole season and then another half a season and essentially ayed 40 games over two years. As a fantasy owner thats terrifying. I'm hoping thats behind him now and optimistic that he'll be more consistent but I do feel like there is a tangible difference between scrambling to fill 20 games with a bertuzzi or Eberle type and the risk of just straight punting your first pick over the better part of two seasons. Like I said the trust is coming back- slowly- but im lying if I said I was completely over it haha!

    The goal thing was going on feel. The numbers this season arw illuminating and I can admit when I'm wrong (not difficult when it happens so little JOKES!!). I didn't go back many seasons- is this the case consistently? Mack has certainly felt like a more prolific goal scorers but maybe thats closer to an even keel. Fair point.

    I do think we're splitting hairs here with linemates- but whats the fun of this board if not to split the living shit out of those hairs???

    If you look at direct linemates- Mack plays over 50% of his shofts with some combination that features Rantanen. Rantanen is a beast and his size/physical game combined with his lean towards being a distributor make him an ideal fit on paper for a shot volume guy like mack. I LOVE me some point but I dont think its misleading to say that Rantanen is an objectively better offensive player- is it? Ill concede that they're close and likely closer irl in terms of complete game than on the stat sheet where rantanen rules the roost. This year its 53 to 41. Over a three year span points injuries muddy the conversation but rantanen comes out ahead even in terms of pace. Points a great linemate- but I think Rantanen is decisively better offensively. Thats at least one point to Mack by my count.

    The third wheels tend to be Lehkonen and Hagel. I really like Lehkonens whole package but im comfortable calling this a wash. I don't think either guy is going to decide this argument and thats a good thing. That being said- you brought it up yourself- IF a healthy landeakog lines up with Mack/Rant- its a different story. Let's call this a wash right now but a point when Landy is healthy- so half a point?

    Stamkos doesn't line up with Kucherov very often at even strength but he does on the pp. Colorado has no extra eeapon up front to respond to that with. Id say that's important towards the premise of our debate. One point Kucherov.

    I think scoring depth should be a factor as it takes pressure off each players individual line. Stamkos is the bpa here but its a drop-off after that to the likes of Cirelli, Killorn. Whatever way you spin it i like the full line strength of Nicushkin, Newhook, Lehkonen and even Rodriguez a bit better but no one here will draw away coverage like a Stamkos so ill add half a point to TB.

    For me the biggest factor is the Makar factor. I like Hedman and I think they did him dirty this year deployment wise but really this is no contest. Makar really is a different animal out there and on top of that his mobility actually compliments Nates gamebreaking speed. This is a clear win and should almost count for two points lol! I wasn't planning on going so in depth and if I didn't there is a much simpler argument that reads "Makar equals win!" And its actually a pretty solid one lol!

    So we go:

    Primary linemate- 1 Mack
    Secondary linemate- 0.5 Mack
    Scoring depth (L2)- 0.5 Kuch
    PP- 1 Kuch
    Defensive Support- 1 Mack

    Thats 2.5 to Mack to 1.5 for Kuch. My findings/musings/delusions are 112% accurate and 200% unbiased. In the end I think its close but the Makar factor is a pretty stolid argument and im not sure there's much of a debate in that specific issue. I think they're both great owns but Mack is two years younger, seems to be in the better team situation (imho) and although he does have a history of getting injured i think its an important distinction that those injuries seem to be shorter and relatively easier to manage for fantasy owners.

    I'd love to hear a counter argument and thanks for dialing back the tone a bit- makes for a more enjoyable discussion...

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