Raise your hand (be honest) if...

[Pengwin7]

...you CURRENTLY think of Ryan Hartman as a "Winger".


In one of my leagues, fantasy GMs are allowed to request a primary position change for a player if either:
i) Their primary position from last year (2021-22) does not match what Fantrax shows for them.
ii) Their intended primary position for this year (2022-23) does not match what Fantrax shows for them.
[The rule change allowance is available so that player positions, league-wide, feel accurate - especially when Fantrax sometimes lists positions that are very clearly incorrect.]


Ryan Hartman is listed as a center, C.
The GM requested that Ryan Hartman be changed to RW.
(GM is top team in 24 team league, very savvy, traded for Hartman last year onto his team).


On a scale of 1-10... how awful is this request from fantasy GM?
(I'm trying to justify "mood" I have right now).


(EDIT: After first two replies, I realized I should've added "CURRENTLY" to the opening line. The league's consideration of a position change is based only on last year & this coming year. Everything else [2yrs ago and farther] is not applicable towards the consideration.]

[metaldude26]

I've always thought of Hartman as a winger, and it's pretty clear looking at his usage throughout his career that that is predominantly how he has been used but an obvious transition took place in February 2021, where he jumps up to taking 10+ faceoffs a game, which continued into last season. Lineup data confirms his transition to center with his most common linemates being Kirill Kaprizov, Mats Zuccarello, Jordan Greenway, Marcus Foligno and Kevin Fiala. Those guys account for over 2/3rds of his shifts, and none of them are thought of as anything but wingers and do not take faceoffs.

Without hearing the GMs argument it's impossible to make a judgement call on how "awful" it is, but I think there's plenty enough evidence to reject this request. I'd suggest you not take the request personally, but you wouldn't be the commissioner you are if you didn't.

[stevegamer]

I'm going to echo what Steve said above. I formerly thought of Hartman as a winger. I now think of him as the Wild's top line center, who used to be a pure winger.

In my league in sig, we had an issue with Dustin Byfuglien & to Brett Burns back in the day when they were F/D. Burns less so, as he transitioned to a defenseman and pretty much never looked back, but his position on hockey-reference is D/RW, which does reflect his career.

Byfuglien had 1-2 seasons where he was switching from F to D in season, even week-to week at times. Strangely his hockey-reference page doesn't note this, but we needed a ruling, because it was weird, and the GM who had Byfuglien was brining this positional flexibilty up. The commish ended up saying he had to be one or the other for the season. I was the GM, and thought the ruling was fair, however, I had used him at both spots at times during the season because he was playing both spots.

Sadly, hockey doesn't have a games played at a position stat like baseball, so there's no way to bright line this.

I'd decline to make the change, let them know that if this was requested in 2020-21, it owuld've been fine - of course he was very likely a C/W then. Can you check positions going back to then?

[Pengwin7]

(I added an "EDIT" note to the OP. The word "CURRENTLY" should've been included here. Without it, the responses shifted too far into the past for proper discussion of the topic at hand.)

[Invictus]

Last time I thought of Ryan Hartman was when he gave Kane the middle finger.

The middle finger being placed in the center of your hand... When I think Hartman - I think center!

[metaldude26]

As I indicated above, I've always considered Hartman a winger and a 3rd/4th liner at that. I know objectively that he is not and that it can be measured, but that's still the bin I place him in without digging further.

[Pengwin7]

As I indicated above, I've always considered Hartman a winger and a 3rd/4th liner at that. I know objectively that he is not and that it can be measured, but that's still the bin I place him in without digging further.

If there was a magical machine that wiped your brain clear from everything that has happened prior to last season...
All your brain sees & knows is last season (2021-22)... and what may be happening this season (2022-23 preseason)...

What is Hartman?
Would you even consider (on this situational) that Hartman could be deemed a Right Winger?


[Even Yahoo!... the bastards of all dual-eligibility granting... have Hartman as a C.]

[metaldude26]

If there was a magical machine that wiped your brain clear from everything that has happened prior to last season...
All your brain sees & knows is last season (2021-22)... and what may be happening this season (2022-23 preseason)...

What is Hartman?
Would you even consider (on this situational) that Hartman could be deemed a Right Winger?


[Even Yahoo!... the bastards of all dual-eligibility granting... have Hartman as a C.]

Objectively, everything points to Hartman as a center and with the magical brain wiping machine that's likely the bin my "clean" brain would put him in. But it isn't so I still think of Hartman as this depth winger and have to actively over-write this both with regard to position and usage.

[stevegamer]

If there was a magical machine that wiped your brain clear from everything that has happened prior to last season...

If said machine existed, I would be a moron like many other people. I can't imagine suddenly not knowing the vast majority of what I know.

I know what you're asking. I wouldn't classify him as a right winger for positional eligibility. I wanted to give you the full nuance of what I think.

[chuckcouples]

He's been a center for long enough now that there is no way he should be eligible to switch to RW.

With that said, there is nothing in the NHL CBA that defines the different skater positions. There is a difference between goalie and skater but there is nothing anywhere that defines skater positions.

[VintageVibe]

All good, guys. It was me that made this request supplemented with 5 highly recognized hockey websites that have him listed as a RW (including NHL.com) when we just needed to link one.

Hartman was listed as a RW in the league last year (I acquired him as such near our trade deadline) so I figured Id ask if he could go back to RW again. Esp. with Rossi coming in and maybe displacing him back to wing at some point this season (and rules are clear not to ask for mid season positional changes). Anways, I would've accepted a simple rejection to my request. But...

I quit the league after Peng took this request too personally and PMd that my request was some "stupid ass shit" and to "just leave". Now I know how a lot of the former GMs felt before they left. I feel bad for whoever he starts picking on next.

I wouldn't recommend joining the WHL to my worst enemies these days. Not until the powers that be there remove him as a commissioner anyway.

I was the number one supporter of this league for many years. But I have wasted 7.5 years of my life investing in a league run by someone who is completely unhinged and swears at you over a position change request.

Fantasy sports are suppose to be a safe place to enjoy with others. Not be bullied by someone with a personal vendetta who gets so personal over such trivial things.

There are some truly amazing people in the league but I would recommend stearing clear of Peng's WHL until there are leadership changes within.

[roenick27]

This is a tough one. He took about 1100 face offs last year but then in prior years, was much less. He’s expected to be a top 6 C this year in Minny. I think it’s one of those dual options where he should be a C with RW eligibility. He’s also never produced offensively anywhere near what he did last year (previous best year he was clearly a winger).

He should be a C, but I don’t think it’s a huge thing to ask for RW eligibility here

[notch4077]

I see no issue with Hartman keeping W eligibility as who knows what Rossi's appearance in the lineup does to future combinations.

[saucelife90]

Without looking I said winger, but his deployment lately would indicate C.

With that being said, he's still listed as a RW on NHL.com as well as the Wild's official website so there's that...

[The Biscuit]

I always thought of Hartman as a Winger until recently, but because of the Wilds team makeup he is now the teams #1 Center and that is going forward I suppose. Not sure how much longer he will have the Winger eligibility, but I guess for now it can still be there. I did know that GM's could recommend changes like that. I thought those sorts of changes were done by the formats like Yahoo, ESPN or Fantrax.