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Thread: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Brad View Post
    There will never be a middle ground when it comes to abortion. Both sides are so unyielding that even discussion is nearly impossible. How many weeks’ gestation, states vs. federal law….
    No question. See, the problem is, that this will be left for the State to decide. What will happen is that some States will say you can abort a pregnancy with few limitations, some states will say you cannot abort under any circumstance, and then the other States will land with varying degrees in between. If you have money, you will be free to go where you want to hit the State with the abortion restrictions that fit your situation. If you do not have money or the ability to travel, you are at the mercy of your State laws.

    Let's be real, this has never been about caring for the life of the unborn. This is about control. This is about pushing an archaic Biblical belief which isn't relevant in today's society. This has been legally scrutinized for 50 years. It's not that it shouldn't have be done in the first place, it's that it has taken this long for the pieces to fit perfectly to be able to repeal. This is evil and corruption at the highest and most blatant level. It's shameful and disgusting.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    No question. See, the problem is, that this will be left for the State to decide. What will happen is that some States will say you can abort a pregnancy with few limitations, some states will say you cannot abort under any circumstance, and then the other States will land with varying degrees in between. If you have money, you will be free to go where you want to hit the State with the abortion restrictions that fit your situation. If you do not have money or the ability to travel, you are at the mercy of your State laws.

    Let's be real, this has never been about caring for the life of the unborn. This is about control. This is about pushing an archaic Biblical belief which isn't relevant in today's society. This has been legally scrutinized for 50 years. It's not that it shouldn't have be done in the first place, it's that it has taken this long for the pieces to fit perfectly to be able to repeal. This is evil and corruption at the highest and most blatant level. It's shameful and disgusting.

    Rylant
    100% this. Politics, as a whole, has lost its true meaning and has become about people (or entities) trying to control the masses. And while both sides probably agree on that statement, both hate each other too much to be able to do anything about it.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    This also sets the stage for further situations like this. Same-Sex marriage and LGBTQ rights, I would think are at risk. Alito said in his draft "We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion." Seriously? What are you talking about? EVERYTHING in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that don't concern abortion. Precedent isn't stopping you here, why would anybody think it will stop you anywhere else?

    This is going to get ugly...

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Of course, this is only the beginning. There's no way this doesn't lead to plenty other rights getting re-examined. I wish it would be about gun control, but it is going to be about the rights of minorities.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    No question. See, the problem is, that this will be left for the State to decide. What will happen is that some States will say you can abort a pregnancy with few limitations, some states will say you cannot abort under any circumstance, and then the other States will land with varying degrees in between. If you have money, you will be free to go where you want to hit the State with the abortion restrictions that fit your situation. If you do not have money or the ability to travel, you are at the mercy of your State laws.

    Let's be real, this has never been about caring for the life of the unborn. This is about control. This is about pushing an archaic Biblical belief which isn't relevant in today's society. This has been legally scrutinized for 50 years. It's not that it shouldn't have be done in the first place, it's that it has taken this long for the pieces to fit perfectly to be able to repeal. This is evil and corruption at the highest and most blatant level. It's shameful and disgusting.

    Rylant
    You won't even be free to go to other States to get an abortion if some States get their wish because they will enact laws that actually punish this as well. It's incredibly painful to watch the USA completely fall apart in front of our eyes.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    This also sets the stage for further situations like this. Same-Sex marriage and LGBTQ rights, I would think are at risk. Alito said in his draft "We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion." Seriously? What are you talking about? EVERYTHING in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that don't concern abortion. Precedent isn't stopping you here, why would anybody think it will stop you anywhere else?

    This is going to get ugly...

    Rylant
    We already had this happen 12 years ago with Citizens United. First we had a decision about campaign finance and speech that was supposed to be restricted only to that specific instance. Months later, Citizens United happened and applied the "only this one specific instance" rule to all campaign finance.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rylant View Post
    Not sure exactly what you are suggesting, but I assume you are good with R v W being overturned?

    Rylant
    I think birth control should be in our tap water and people should have to apply for the antidote. So no, quite the opposite.

    To me “being responsible for my child” means having the brain power to determine if you can be responsible to bring up a child in a positive environment or not. If you cant then the responsible thing to do is abort.

    Too many children being born into bad situations and overturning RvW will only make it worse, along with the precedent it sets for rights of freedom of choice. This aligns with my vaccine mandate hate. 😉

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Catholicism is a religion that is based solely on the story of a male (god) impregnating a woman (Mary) without her consent and forcing her to have and raise the child (jesus).

    How would anyone expect followers of this religion to want women to have any rights?

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Catholicism is a religion that is based solely on the story of a male (god) impregnating a woman (Mary) without her consent and forcing her to have and raise the child (jesus).

    How would anyone expect followers of this religion to want women to have any rights?
    I honestly have never heard of it this way and it's so spot on.
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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    The US crime rate fell dramatically in the 90s which was 20-something years after Roe v Wade went into effect. So when states start banning abortion they'll then have a crime problem in 20+ years due to the increased number of unwanted children born to poor, uneducated mothers. It doesn't take much to see the huge trickle down effect that overturning abortion rights would create.

    By the way, Freakonomics did a podcast about the crime rate and Roe v Wade. It was so fascinating that I listened to it twice.
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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Catholicism is a religion that is based solely on the story of a male (god) impregnating a woman (Mary) without her consent and forcing her to have and raise the child (jesus).

    How would anyone expect followers of this religion to want women to have any rights?
    It's definitely an interesting perspective. And to be honest, something that really bothers me about Christianity.

    I will for sure fight for everyone's right to be Christian, but you do not get to tell me that I am not allowed to marry because I am gay or that I am not allowed to get an abortion, because your little mythical book tells you that I shouldn't. By all means, run your life the way you wish, but I do not care what the Bible says...

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    By the way, Freakonomics did a podcast about the crime rate and Roe v Wade. It was so fascinating that I listened to it twice.
    I need to get back to listening to that podcast again. It's great!
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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    The US crime rate fell dramatically in the 90s which was 20-something years after Roe v Wade went into effect. So when states start banning abortion they'll then have a crime problem in 20+ years due to the increased number of unwanted children born to poor, uneducated mothers. It doesn't take much to see the huge trickle down effect that overturning abortion rights would create.

    By the way, Freakonomics did a podcast about the crime rate and Roe v Wade. It was so fascinating that I listened to it twice.
    This is interesting, but I am confused.

    Do anti-abortion laws bring about less abortions in the USA? I always thought the answer to that was no, but that it only drove those abortions to illegal sources. However, if there is a real effect happening with the crime rate and roe v wade, then wouldn't that mean that anti-abortion laws do actually lead to less abortions? Did the podcast cover this?

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    I'm always a little uncomfortable when religion gets brought up in these conversations. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree that religion has no place in politics or schools. But I was raised by a mother with strong religious convictions and I've seen her do some wonderful things to help her community and those around her.

    She's also very pro-choice and never tried to impose her religious beliefs on me or my siblings. I kind of wish every religious people was like her. It's hard to see her react to news like this because she knows that people she shares beliefs with are a big part of this problem.

    Anyway, I'm ranting here.

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    Default Re: Roe v Wade to be overturned?

    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    This is interesting, but I am confused.

    Do anti-abortion laws bring about less abortions in the USA? I always thought the answer to that was no, but that it only drove those abortions to illegal sources. However, if there is a real effect happening with the crime rate and roe v wade, then wouldn't that mean that anti-abortion laws do actually lead to less abortions? Did the podcast cover this?
    The podcast looked at the total number of abortions before and after Roe v Wade went into effect. I don't recall the exact numbers but there was a significant increase in the number of abortions after Roe v Wade. Another hypothesis for the cause of the reduced crime rate was the banning of lead in gasoline which occurred in the 70s as well.
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