Roe v Wade to be overturned?

[2014olympicgold]

I'm always a little uncomfortable when religion gets brought up in these conversations. Don't get me wrong, I wholeheartedly agree that religion has no place in politics or schools. But I was raised by a mother with strong religious convictions and I've seen her do some wonderful things to help her community and those around her.

She's also very pro-choice and never tried to impose her religious beliefs on me or my siblings. I kind of wish every religious people was like her. It's hard to see her react to news like this because she knows that people she shares beliefs with are a big part of this problem.

Anyway, I'm ranting here.

100% how it should be if that's your belief. It's yours, not everyones.


And this has been the Republican plan for 50yrs, slowly get your guys on the committee to change everything you want without any interference from the President. Trump pandered to the religious groups of America saying he'd get the right people in the SCOJ to overturn laws to their liking and he got it and all the people who voted for Trump are part of it. So dumb how the majority of America wants pro-choice and the leaders are like...nahhhhh we want pro-life so suck it.

[skinnypete88]

The US crime rate fell dramatically in the 90s which was 20-something years after Roe v Wade went into effect. So when states start banning abortion they'll then have a crime problem in 20+ years due to the increased number of unwanted children born to poor, uneducated mothers. It doesn't take much to see the huge trickle down effect that overturning abortion rights would create.

By the way, Freakonomics did a podcast about the crime rate and Roe v Wade. It was so fascinating that I listened to it twice.

I would be curious to see the data behind this, not because I don't believe there is a correlation but through all this it's important to remember that Roe v. Wade only ensured the right to have an abortion. It never ensured that people could actually get one.

I saw a stat that five American states have only one abortion clinic and last year alone, 100 anti-abortion bills were passed in 19 states. States have so much autonomy that when the Hyde Amendment was passed they were able to legislate all sorts of TRAP (Targeted Regulation of Abortion Providers) laws to skirt Roe and effectively outlaw abortion anyways.

The crime increase in the 90s is probably linked to an increase in TRAP legislation that started during that same period.

[doulos]

The podcast looked at the total number of abortions before and after Roe v Wade went into effect. I don't recall the exact numbers but there was a significant increase in the number of abortions after Roe v Wade. Another hypothesis for the cause of the reduced crime rate was the banning of lead in gasoline which occurred in the 70s as well.

Well that's an incredibly surprising result and is worthy of some further study by me if I can find some time then. It basically demonstrates that you CAN cut down on abortions with laws, and actually gives a lot of ammunition for the anti-choice group.

I'll perhaps have to find the podcast, as another possible idea is that there were no more abortions, but just more REPORTED abortions.

[doulos]

https://journalistsresource.org/econ...20Freakonomics.

An older article that discusses the nuances of the issue. Really interesting stuff.

[Feenom]

This also sets the stage for further situations like this. Same-Sex marriage and LGBTQ rights, I would think are at risk. Alito said in his draft "We emphasize that our decision concerns the constitutional right to abortion and no other right. Nothing in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that do not concern abortion." Seriously? What are you talking about? EVERYTHING in this opinion should be understood to cast doubt on precedents that don't concern abortion. Precedent isn't stopping you here, why would anybody think it will stop you anywhere else?

This is going to get ugly...

Rylant

Bang on with this. It can only get worse from here on in.

[Daydream Nation]

https://journalistsresource.org/econ...20Freakonomics.

An older article that discusses the nuances of the issue. Really interesting stuff.

They are going to revisit the topic in this week's podcast.

[doulos]

They are going to revisit the topic in this week's podcast.

Oh nice, thanks. I'll tune in and see what they have to say. There certainly seems to be some disagreement in circles over the findings. (which isn't bad, but just how these things work!)

[2014olympicgold]

Vice again pumps out a good mini doc(?) that scares the crap out of me

[Feenom]

Data probably out sells the drug trade by a lot. I saw on that John Oliver show that there are companies out there that solely exist to buy data. It’s a dangerous age we live in, convenient but dangerous.

[Loch]

The podcast looked at the total number of abortions before and after Roe v Wade went into effect. I don't recall the exact numbers but there was a significant increase in the number of abortions after Roe v Wade. Another hypothesis for the cause of the reduced crime rate was the banning of lead in gasoline which occurred in the 70s as well.

The climb of leaded gas (and it's decline) and the following climb and decline of crime has been documented in most western countries. Given the effects of lead on brain development there is nothing really surprising in it. It also makes me laugh when the handwringing (usually right wing) over "crime running rampant" starts and they say we need to go back to the good old days... you know, when by all metrics crime was worse?

As an aside, the legality of abortion in Canada is (relatively) recent - 1988 court decision... which at the time made Canada the only western country without any legal prohibitions on abortion.