Renege on waiver claim?

[senryu]

If the act of making a claim disadvantages the other owners in some way other than them not getting the player because your claim gets you the player, then it is morally bad to try to undo it. Undoing something that doesn't hurt anyone is fine.

[Pennies]

Team A is sending his player to the farm. He is a regular player and not entry level. Because he is a regular contract player, he has to still pay 50% of his salary while he is on the farm team. This gets away from guys burying good players on their farm team, so nobody else can sign them. When this player is sent to the farm, I have to take on the players full contract for full price and term when I collect him on waivers after the 3 day waiting period.

Now when I claim him off waivers, I take the full contact , team A now has 6 million in extra cap space instead of only 3, if he was to go to his farm team.

If Team A then signs another player for 6 million dollars, he is just fine. (Which he has done)
Now suppose I want to renege on my claim?
If I do this team A will be over the cap by at least 3 million. ( The price to put him on his farm team at 1/2 price)
The fine is 100k a day for being over the cap.
Team A is stuck with an extra 6 mil player that he can’t afford. I wouldn’t do this on purpose just to screw him ( although he was the only one not to show up for our annual golf and GM meetings 3 weeks ago)
That’s my situation. Sorry I didn’t explain better

[finnys_fanatsy]

I don’t think anyone was saying to cancel the claim to intentionally screw the OGM.

Just so I and others understand here. IF this player that was sent to waivers goes unclaimed, is the OGM still on the hook for half salary $3M? Or is his salary fully off his books? Does moving a player to your farm team include passing him thru waivers?

Obviously I don’t play in a cap league lol.

I guess I still don’t understand why the OGM added more salary so soon without thinking that this player would go unclaimed or claimed first.

[notch4077]

Stop worrying about others and look after your team.

[Locke]

Where are your league rules posted, and what do they say about claiming other GM's players off waivers?

You're on Yahoo, but also somewhere else. Yahoo doesn't support farm teams as far as I know. So other GMs waiving of this player to bury him in the minors is not a Yahoo waiver drop, and not a standard Yahoo waiver claim. If your waiver claim is public knowledge, it's also not simply a Yahoo waiver claim. So Yahoo permitting you to cancel your waiver claim doesn't seem to me to be relevant.

Everything depends on how your rules are written. If it's the case that your specific league rules are inadequately clear for this situation, then they should be clarified. And what you should do depends on past precedent, the spirit of the rules, whether this is a league with friends, how much you want to rock the boat, etc.

[skinnypete88]

Team A is sending his player to the farm. He is a regular player and not entry level. Because he is a regular contract player, he has to still pay 50% of his salary while he is on the farm team. This gets away from guys burying good players on their farm team, so nobody else can sign them. When this player is sent to the farm, I have to take on the players full contract for full price and term when I collect him on waivers after the 3 day waiting period.

Now when I claim him off waivers, I take the full contact , team A now has 6 million in extra cap space instead of only 3, if he was to go to his farm team.

If Team A then signs another player for 6 million dollars, he is just fine. (Which he has done)
Now suppose I want to renege on my claim?
If I do this team A will be over the cap by at least 3 million. ( The price to put him on his farm team at 1/2 price)
The fine is 100k a day for being over the cap.
Team A is stuck with an extra 6 mil player that he can’t afford. I wouldn’t do this on purpose just to screw him ( although he was the only one not to show up for our annual golf and GM meetings 3 weeks ago)
That’s my situation. Sorry I didn’t explain better

So another team is trying send a player down to the farm team which will alleviate some of his cap space.
But that player needs to clear waivers so you submitted a claim and got the player.
Original owner now has 6 mil (or 3 mil for farm) off of his books. Excellent.
Time to process transaction takes three days. After day two you would like to change your mind and cancel the claim.

Is this right?

If so, I don't think it would be illegal to cancel your claim but I do think it would be unethical.

I would view it as this; if I made a trade with someone and the trade was processed but I then changed my mind, it's too late. Transaction is processed.
In the same way, you submitted your claim, the claim is being processed and so it is a done deal. You hit the button, it wasn't done in error, gotta live with your decision.

Technically you could say well I have the option to cancel so that's what I'm doing but I wouldn't view this as a standard waiver claim in a non-salary cap league. It is impacting another GM. There should probably be a discussion in your league about removing the ability to cancel a claim like this or an understanding that no one should cancel the claim.

[J0e Th0rnton]

I have one more day before I’m awarded the player. Just wondering if I’m opening a can of worms by doing this. Not sure it would fly by the commish in our league as it’s never been done before. It could really hose the leader of our league as he would have to account for that half a salary on his farm and he’s already signed 2 other players. He pretty tight against the cap already.

That actually sounds like a sound strategy move LOL

[LawMan]

So another team is trying send a player down to the farm team which will alleviate some of his cap space.
But that player needs to clear waivers so you submitted a claim and got the player.
Original owner now has 6 mil (or 3 mil for farm) off of his books. Excellent.
Time to process transaction takes three days. After day two you would like to change your mind and cancel the claim.

Is this right?

If so, I don't think it would be illegal to cancel your claim but I do think it would be unethical.

I would view it as this; if I made a trade with someone and the trade was processed but I then changed my mind, it's too late. Transaction is processed.
In the same way, you submitted your claim, the claim is being processed and so it is a done deal. You hit the button, it wasn't done in error, gotta live with your decision.

Technically you could say well I have the option to cancel so that's what I'm doing but I wouldn't view this as a standard waiver claim in a non-salary cap league. It is impacting another GM. There should probably be a discussion in your league about removing the ability to cancel a claim like this or an understanding that no one should cancel the claim.

I think this breaks it done perfectly.
The key questions is what is the purpose of the 3-day rule, and, is your claim public knowledge?
If the purpose "thinking time" to give all teams have a chance to review available players, and have a chance to claim, then the claim is not final until the expiry of 3 days and cancelling it should be fine. Usually in these situations waiver claims are not made public until expiry (otherwise less savy GMs would see what the top guys are doing and just copy).
If however the 3-day period is more of a "processing time". The claim is formalized and it take 3-days to "do the paperwork" then I think you are stuck with the player.

Finally, What is the waived player's status during the 3 days and how was OGM able to sign $6mil worth of players?
If the OGM saw his player was claimed, and that allowed him to sign $6mil more, than again you should be stuck with the claim.
If however, the OGM signed extra players hoping the player would be claimed, that is on him.
Finally, I do not understand how the rules allowed the OGM to sign $6mil during the 3-day waiver period. It would only make sense that a waived player counts at 1/2 contract for the 3-day period, as that is worst case scenario. If the waived player counts as $0 this is a bad loophole that gives a GM unintended cap relief (only for 3 days but still).

Anyways, the rules sound confusing.
If the claim is public knowledge and has become "firm" then you should be stuck with it. If the claim is not firm until the end of the waiver period then you should be entitled to cancel the claim and the OGM screwed himself by overspending on a hope that the player would be claimed.

[Invictus]

If the claim is public knowledge and has become "firm" then you should be stuck with it. If the claim is not firm until the end of the waiver period then you should be entitled to cancel the claim and the OGM screwed himself by overspending on a hope that the player would be claimed.

Even if the claim is public knowledge, I feel like if the three day time is for "thinking time" (with the option of cancelling) then it's still fine to be able to cancel. The other GM took the risk of taking on salary knowing there was the possibility of the claim being cancelled.

EDIT
Oh I think you just said this, maybe I didn't read it all or it got added after.

[Pennies]

Thanks for all your thoughts. The Commish has ruled that you are NOT allowed to cancel your waiver claim once you declare. This would possibly leave a major loophole where you could claim and then unclaim just before the 3 day waiting period is over. Especially if your one of the bottom feeders and have waiver priority. This rule alleviates holding onto the player and then possibly bribing and just plain ****ing with the dropped players GM. All waivers are made public in our league through our message board and are not on yahoo.

BY the way the player was for Boeser and the GM WAS SHITTING HIS PANTS.

[This Guy]

Well Boeser is still a good player! I think he'll sign for less next year anyway, no way the Canucks should pay him 7.5mm

I know it's a done deal. I would have looked at it similar to a verbal trade agreement that both parties agreed to and then you changed your mind and didn't submit it online. In our league, until it's processed it ain't worth squat, and it's happened a few times. So in your case as it wasn't finalized I would've thought that you could backout, and that's the parallel I would have drawn. It was the OGM who was signing players before the waiver wire went through. If you hadn't put in a claim, he wouldn't have signed those players so if the claim had been undone (and he got rid of the signed players) he would have been no worse off (and the fine cancelled as it was an unprecedented situation).

Having said that, I get your Commish's point but think this is a one-off situation. How likely it would have been to screw with other teams this way on a regular basis? For example there are rules (official and unofficial) against tanking but teams do it anyway. One team constantly using the waiver wire to screw with other teams could eventually be kicked out of a league if they continually break the spirit of the league.

What's done is done and you've got a nice player. I get that the easier way is to keep the peace and that way there's no bad blood between teams. As it was unprecedented, I think that the OGM is very lucky to have it ruled in their favour as it could easily have gone the other way. In my leagues I think it would have gone in your favour.

[random-d]

The only confusing part of this whole ordeal to me was, wtf is the purpose of the 3 day waiting period if the player is already claimed and the other GM already has the salary available? I mean why is the team claiming being made to wait 3 days while the team from which the player was claimed is able to reap the "benefits" immediately? It's like half the transaction gets processed immediately and the other half takes 3 days...is this a fantasy league or a bank?

[finnys_fanatsy]

Well I guess that settles that. It is certainly an odd circumstance that can only happen in the fantasy world of sport.

I am also wondering why the OGM got to stock his team before the Waiver was official? And why make your claims public knowledge? I mean that’s one way to keep the OGM from the potential of having his team go over cap, if he doesn’t know if his guy is gonna get claimed then he should not go on a spending spree.

[Bubba55]

Well this thread was an interesting read (:

Hopefully the Comish and League GM's in general will move to amend the League constitution (I'm assumi ng there is one) that clearly defines how your waiver process works. End of problem.