Passenger Vehicle - Family Style

[Stifler]

There is no contest when it comes to environmental impact, sorry dude, its not even close. ICE cars do way more damage over their lifetime. You can throw all the generic comments you want at it but they're all BS. So some of the conspiracy theories you read are wrong... see there will always be conspiracies and controversy and lobbyists, you have to be smart enough to know when to listen and when to ignore.

As for the climate yes, there is a bit of a sweet spot for efficiency, Cali was too hot for the Leaf and Canada is too wet and cold for Tesla. But the weather isn't always cold up here and how often does one drive 500 km with kids and not stop once? Most driving is city driving and short distance, and idling. Perfect for EVs. And battery conditioning tech is still a focus. Heaters and coolers to keep the cells optimal. I have been driving my Leaf for 5 years in BC and am yet to lose a tick of my battery meter. I have spent 30$ on maintenance in that time, replacing he wipers. No oil guys... I laugh when I see 2$ per litre, I ****ING LAUGH SO HARD AT PEOPLE LIKE STIFLER with their Canada flags dragging down those home made alberta pig rigs blasting down the highway.

Where I live electricity is 12c/kwh. I have looked at 3 cars mileages, the Leaf, the Bolt EV and a Tesla Model S. They consume between 12-20 kWh per 100 km. So if you average at 15 kwh times 12c you get.... $1.80 per 100 km charging at home.
Just sayin.


Here is the Ioniq being started in Saskatchewan winter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh49EhPICBM

Good luck with your decision, keep doing that research.

500 km trips are quite common for me and here in Alberta. So maybe in a city its nice where all you do is go to the grocery store and commute 10 minutes to work every day. Other than thwt there is no way I would recommend ev here.

As for environmentally friendly, tell me how their batteries are friendly, what happens to them once they need replacing, how the rest of the vehicle is produced without fossil fuels etc.

They simply aren't environmentally friendly. They may not take gas, but theres more to it than that.

[rataylor22]

Tesla's are famously the only vehicles that require batteries.

[blayze]

I think overall the Highlander is the best pound for pound SUV on the market and also one of the most versatile.

Unfortunately they get stolen like hot cakes here in Toronto (along with Lexuses and Hondas) and I wasn't willing to park in the garage every single day... so I went with Mazda instead and I've been very happy with it. I think of all the brands, Mazda offers the best value - quality build (most of them are built in JPN), reliability, safety and luxury features/finishes (if you go for a higher end trim) without the luxury price tag.

[chuckcouples]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

We have been looking at the Subaru Ascent for a couple of years because we love everything about our Forester but we don't think it's worth spending the $40k - $50k to replace our existing vehicle with one that is probably still not big enough for our needs. We did see a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter the other day and we are very intrigued by those. They might be a little too big and they also don't have a 7 or 8 seater version of them at least not that we can find.

The EV market is something that definitely intrigues me but I don't think we are ready for that leap yet because most of our family trips are of the 500km or significantly more variety and there does not seem to be any good larger SUV/vans in this space yet. They are coming but my research says that they are not yet available.

[Belexus75]

Most if not all Vehicles that are spacious and great for family run on 6 cylinders or more. Which means crazy expensive driving. We have a caravan, pretty good for family, we got the "buss" entrance at the back so great for school drop off and stuff but it eats 14-16litters /100km in the city. I personally would recommend to go Toyota Highlander Hybird. Its very nice vehicle and its not stupid expensive either. Once you have it, your fuel costs gets easily cut in half or less in the summer and about 30-40% in the winter.

[Stifler]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

We have been looking at the Subaru Ascent for a couple of years because we love everything about our Forester but we don't think it's worth spending the $40k - $50k to replace our existing vehicle with one that is probably still not big enough for our needs. We did see a Mercedes-Benz Sprinter the other day and we are very intrigued by those. They might be a little too big and they also don't have a 7 or 8 seater version of them at least not that we can find.

The EV market is something that definitely intrigues me but I don't think we are ready for that leap yet because most of our family trips are of the 500km or significantly more variety and there does not seem to be any good larger SUV/vans in this space yet. They are coming but my research says that they are not yet available.

If you are intrigued by sprinters, have a look at the Nissan NV. That seems to be fitting your needs.

[audiopile]

Kia Telluride mileage used from https://www.fuelly.com/car/kia/telluride/2022
19.6 m/g ~= 12 l/100km (stated by manufacturer to be 11 so its very close)

Kia Telluride and VW ID4 both start at about 46k CAD (not including all the gouging) so I will consider that a wash. Top end models are likely around 60k but my work PC wont let me build them.

So it comes down to mileage already. At 12L/ 100 km its gonna be 24$ for 100km (current gas price where i live is 2$/L) on gas and 1.8$ on electric. I mean why do we even need to talk about this? I get the range issue -it is the biggest hiccup for most people to adapt to- and I don't have kids but I was one once and remember stopping every couple hours on road trips to stretch our legs and use the pottie (charge time opportunity). To be fair, if you are charging away from home, the current cost to rapid charge is about 35c / kWh and that triples the cost to a whopping $6 per 100km if I round up. After 100,000 km the difference in fuel cost is: (24-6)*1000 so about $18,000.
Over the life of the car (300,000km) it will come close to paying for itself on savings even if you buy your electricity from a station all the time *at today's prices for both. If you think either energy cost will come down, it won't.

Availability is an issue for all vehicle these days, they both have significant amounts of processors in them and I don't think the EVs are any more complicated than the ICE vehicles, in fact less moving parts makes them more reliable too!

Anyway, I'm done with this one. Enjoy many years of fun with the family in your new car Chuck!

*environmental impacts not considered in my personal cost savings - you dont have to care about the environment, but we all care about our wallets.

[Invictus]

I looked at EV's when I was buying but decided to go with the cheaper option - Toyota Yaris.

Good to see a Pengwin7 response!

[GinFizz]

Hey Chuck - Consumerreports.org is always my go-to for things like this.
The wife and I have had our 2010 Subaru Forester since fall '09 and have not had a single issue with it for almost 13 years now.
Great vehicle - and we just have two daughters, so we don't need the extra space.

Since I have subscription, here's what CR has for ratings for "Midsized sport-utility vehicles 3-row" and "Large sport utility vehicles" (assume "Luxury" is out of range.)
$ are US.

97... 2022 Kia Telluride. Price range: $33k-$45k. 5/4/5
88... 2022 Toyota Highlander. Price range: $35k-$51k. 5/4/5
87... 2022 Hyundai Palisade. Price range: $33k-$49k. 5/5/5
84... 2022 Mazda CX-9. Price range: $35k-$47k. 5/4/5
83... 2022 Chevrolet Traverse. Price range: $34k-$53k. NA/NA/NA
The last three numbers are the star rating (out of 5) for NHTSA Overall Crash, NHTSA Overall Frontal-Crash, NHTSA Overall Side-Crash
(several other cars come in next at 76 or less, Honda Pilot first... then VW Atlas, Nissan Pathf... the Ford Explorer 47, Kia Sorento 46, Chevy Suburb 41, GMC Yukon XL 40, and Chevy Tahoe 39, and GMC Yukon bring up the rear.)


For a benchmark on their scoring... (and you will know since you have one)... the Subaru Foresters have been scored out at around 80-88 for the last 10-15 years.
Usuallly they've been the #1 or #2 vehicle in their class those years.

The "Outback" is currently the highest scoring "midsized" at 85 (but not a 3-row)...
The "Forester" is currently the highest scoring "compact" at 90... obv, smaller than a mid-sized.

That 97 score on the Telluride is insane... I've honestly only seen one or two cars scored at 97+ in the 15+ years I've been a member of CR. (one was the Tesla)

re: Electric, not sure it is where you are... but (like houses), electrics are in high demand and being moved up well above previous sticker price with obviously no bartering down at dealership or with owners.
So... IMO, its just not an option right now - unless you are going to log 100km+ every 5 years and need the gas $$$ savings.


Good luck, hope you pick a good one!

Ive driven a Telluride and it felt stiff and rigid.. Most people will probably like that feel but man that truck didnt feel right for me.. obviously just my .02

[Invictus]

Get a limousine imo.

[rataylor22]

Ive driven a Telluride and it felt stiff and rigid.. Most people will probably like that feel but man that truck didnt feel right for me.. obviously just my .02

Test drive is obviously a big one. We drove the same “level” of car from Ford, Toyota, Mazda, Hyundai, Kia, etc. and liked the Kia and Ford the best. Other people like the Mazda, Toyota, etc. personal feeling in the car is a big thing.

[Axeman33]

When I test drive a vehicle, there's a few things I look/feel for. First thing is head room. I am not tall (5' 8") so it's easy for me to find head room but I've been in vehicles where even I felt "cramped". Second thing is how it looks looking out the window. Does it feel like I am driving a SUV or an 18 wheeler. Some vehicles have longer front ends than others and it's a matter of comfort there too. I also like to test the handling of the vehicle at various speeds. Most new vehicles should feel tight but I've been in some that the steering feels a bit sloppy. Lastly, I always drive with the radio off. I listen to what the vehicle sounds like as I drive it. Accelerate hard to see how well it shifts and the noise it makes as it's shifting gears. Road noise is another big one. Drive on a highway or in a crowded area where there's lots of other vehicles around you and listen to how much noise you pick up outside the vehicle. Put the steering wheel where it's comfortable to you and how well do you see the dashboard. How close are the controls for the heat/AC and radio. Are they in a place you are comfortable adjusting them.

Just a few things I listen/look for when test driving a vehicle.

- - - Updated - - -

When I test drive a vehicle, there's a few things I look/feel for. First thing is head room. I am not tall (5' 8") so it's easy for me to find head room but I've been in vehicles where even I felt "cramped". Second thing is how it looks looking out the window. Does it feel like I am driving a SUV or an 18 wheeler. Some vehicles have longer front ends than others and it's a matter of comfort there too. I also like to test the handling of the vehicle at various speeds. Most new vehicles should feel tight but I've been in some that the steering feels a bit sloppy. Lastly, I always drive with the radio off. I listen to what the vehicle sounds like as I drive it. Accelerate hard to see how well it shifts and the noise it makes as it's shifting gears. Road noise is another big one. Drive on a highway or in a crowded area where there's lots of other vehicles around you and listen to how much noise you pick up outside the vehicle. Put the steering wheel where it's comfortable to you and how well do you see the dashboard. How close are the controls for the heat/AC and radio. Are they in a place you are comfortable adjusting them.

Just a few things I listen/look for when test driving a vehicle.

[butch]

When I test drive a vehicle, there's a few things I look/feel for. First thing is head room. I am not tall (5' 8") so it's easy for me to find head room but I've been in vehicles where even I felt "cramped". Second thing is how it looks looking out the window. Does it feel like I am driving a SUV or an 18 wheeler. Some vehicles have longer front ends than others and it's a matter of comfort there too. I also like to test the handling of the vehicle at various speeds. Most new vehicles should feel tight but I've been in some that the steering feels a bit sloppy. Lastly, I always drive with the radio off. I listen to what the vehicle sounds like as I drive it. Accelerate hard to see how well it shifts and the noise it makes as it's shifting gears. Road noise is another big one. Drive on a highway or in a crowded area where there's lots of other vehicles around you and listen to how much noise you pick up outside the vehicle. Put the steering wheel where it's comfortable to you and how well do you see the dashboard. How close are the controls for the heat/AC and radio. Are they in a place you are comfortable adjusting them.

Just a few things I listen/look for when test driving a vehicle.

- - - Updated - - -

When I test drive a vehicle, there's a few things I look/feel for. First thing is head room. I am not tall (5' 8") so it's easy for me to find head room but I've been in vehicles where even I felt "cramped". Second thing is how it looks looking out the window. Does it feel like I am driving a SUV or an 18 wheeler. Some vehicles have longer front ends than others and it's a matter of comfort there too. I also like to test the handling of the vehicle at various speeds. Most new vehicles should feel tight but I've been in some that the steering feels a bit sloppy. Lastly, I always drive with the radio off. I listen to what the vehicle sounds like as I drive it. Accelerate hard to see how well it shifts and the noise it makes as it's shifting gears. Road noise is another big one. Drive on a highway or in a crowded area where there's lots of other vehicles around you and listen to how much noise you pick up outside the vehicle. Put the steering wheel where it's comfortable to you and how well do you see the dashboard. How close are the controls for the heat/AC and radio. Are they in a place you are comfortable adjusting them.

Just a few things I listen/look for when test driving a vehicle.

good advice axe .

another one is try and avoid the first year of a model refresh . let the first few years pass by so the bugs get worked out first .

the gen 5 crv's had a known oil dilution issue in 2017-18 during the first few years of new model refresh but they've tweaked a few things like better quality fuel injectors for the 2019-2022 versions of same refresh .

for a mid size suv it gets really good fuel economy . 8.5 / 100 km all winter long here in northern ontario is impressive for a crv . My 2016 crv would be around 11.0/100 km in the winter months

[Pit Bulls]

If considering an EV, another consideration is the availability of charging stations.

In Northern Ontario long trips are common (800 km/500 mi) and there is a definite lack of charging stations along long stretches of remote landscape. More and more are popping up, but not quickly enough to make an EV purchase viable for the most part. EV's make perfect sense for city life and short (less than 480 km/300 mi) trips.

[Invictus]

good advice axe .

another one is try and avoid the first year of a model refresh . let the first few years pass by so the bugs get worked out first .

the gen 5 crv's had a known oil dilution issue in 2017-18 during the first few years of new model refresh but they've tweaked a few things like better quality fuel injectors for the 2019-2022 versions of same refresh .

for a mid size suv it gets really good fuel economy . 8.5 / 100 km all winter long here in northern ontario is impressive for a crv . My 2016 crv would be around 11.0/100 km in the winter months

Actually this is good advice.
Google the TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) for the vehicles you are comparing and even some others if you want a better picture.
You will see TSB's go down a few years into a new model.