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Thread: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by VincentVega View Post
    Not sure your point here. Are you trying to dismiss the benefit of the vaccines because POTUS said something that is not technically correct?

    Political leaders say things that aren't entirely true, and sometimes with the purpose of simplifying a message (and at the time of said message, it was very close to true with the vaccines having an extremely high effectiveness against infection).
    It's also very na´ve to think that governments sometimes don't lie to benefit themselves and own political interests. It's also na´ve to think businesses, ie pharmaceutical companies are not going to do and say, within the realms of regulation, what they have to get the product sold.

    I'm not saying the vaccines don't work just saying that both parties could of embellished for their own personal gain, and that not a conspiracy. These aren't benevolent institutions.
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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canucks_fan18 View Post
    It's also very na´ve to think that governments sometimes don't lie to benefit themselves and own political interests. It's also na´ve to think businesses, ie pharmaceutical companies are not going to do and say, within the realms of regulation, what they have to get the product sold.

    I'm not saying the vaccines don't work just saying that both parties could of embellished for their own personal gain, and that not a conspiracy. These aren't benevolent institutions.
    What, a politician lying or embellishing for their own personal gain? Why, I never would have thought that possible Or a company pushing to maximize profits.
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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canucks_fan18 View Post
    It's also very na´ve to think that governments sometimes don't lie to benefit themselves and own political interests. It's also na´ve to think businesses, ie pharmaceutical companies are not going to do and say, within the realms of regulation, what they have to get the product sold.

    I'm not saying the vaccines don't work just saying that both parties could of embellished for their own personal gain, and that not a conspiracy. These aren't benevolent institutions.
    This isn't how science works of vaccine efficacy. Yes, pharmaceutical companies have to do studies that follow strict requirements to demonstrate effectiveness and safety, but that data gets reviewed and scrutinized by public health agencies prior to approval.

    Further, once a vaccine is produced, the entire global scientific community can then do independent studies to verify the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines. And so far, all studies have conclusively shown that these vaccines are, indeed, effective and safe. These are not "lies" from politicians or Pfizer. They are statistics that have and continue to be independently tested and verified.

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by jcairns View Post
    This isn't how science works of vaccine efficacy. Yes, pharmaceutical companies have to do studies that follow strict requirements to demonstrate effectiveness and safety, but that data gets reviewed and scrutinized by public health agencies prior to approval.

    Further, once a vaccine is produced, the entire global scientific community can then do independent studies to verify the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines. And so far, all studies have conclusively shown that these vaccines are, indeed, effective and safe. These are not "lies" from politicians or Pfizer. They are statistics that have and continue to be independently tested and verified.
    I think some have a hard time understanding how a study can CONCLUSIVELY say that the vaccine is safe long-term -- meaning 10 years from now. Science has been wrong before so it's not outlandish to question it. To me, it's more outlandish to not question it and be certain it has no long-term effects because science (which is a series of hypotheses and data aggregations which are never 100% correct) says so.

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    No I'm not trying to dismiss the benefit of vaccines.

    But I'm trying to point out that these health experts have straight up lied to us from day one regardless of science.

    Like you said vaccines aren't 100% but why have the medical experts told us that.

    Do you think it's safe and wise that world leaders are spreading misinformation? Like if you get vaccinated "you will be safe" or "you won't be hospitalized or die" or "you won't have to wear a mask anymore".

    Certainly the vaccine wasn't 100 even back then, correct??

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Are governments locking us down? Closing small business. Suicide rates gone crazy? Certainly they aren't doing this and lying to us are they?

    Governments benefiting themselves and who's paying the price?

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by jcairns View Post
    This isn't how science works of vaccine efficacy. Yes, pharmaceutical companies have to do studies that follow strict requirements to demonstrate effectiveness and safety, but that data gets reviewed and scrutinized by public health agencies prior to approval.

    Further, once a vaccine is produced, the entire global scientific community can then do independent studies to verify the effectiveness and safety of the vaccines. And so far, all studies have conclusively shown that these vaccines are, indeed, effective and safe. These are not "lies" from politicians or Pfizer. They are statistics that have and continue to be independently tested and verified.
    The covid vaccines were given emergency use prior to approval so in this case that argument doesn't hold up. Also, I am vaccinated but there are known side effects and deaths associated with the vaccines. The numbers aren't huge but would of gotten other medications pulled in the past for similar results. I argue if it's just about hospitalizations why make the vaccine mandatory for people under 18? The data isn't 100% conclusive in this age group.

    https://prescriptiondrugs.procon.org...om-the-market/

    https://vaers.hhs.gov/
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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    No I'm not trying to dismiss the benefit of vaccines.

    But I'm trying to point out that these health experts have straight up lied to us from day one regardless of science.

    Like you said vaccines aren't 100% but why have the medical experts told us that.

    Do you think it's safe and wise that world leaders are spreading misinformation? Like if you get vaccinated "you will be safe" or "you won't be hospitalized or die" or "you won't have to wear a mask anymore".

    Certainly the vaccine wasn't 100 even back then, correct??
    The health experts have not lied to us. (well, some may have, I don't know every health expert) Things have changed. The virus has changed, our understanding of how it spreads has changed. Science isn't religion with dogmas that never change.

    I am not here to speculate on what politicians' motivations are or what they should have/should not have said. Any responsible citizen should educate themselves and understand what the reputable sources of information are. Forget what politicians say, listen to the experts who know way more than you, me or the politicians. And understand how science works.
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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    But I'm trying to point out that these health experts have straight up lied to us from day one regardless of science.
    I think this is probably a waste of time, but for fun, what specifically are you referring to?

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    You and I both know that NOT every civilian educates themselves or have the resources to educate themselves. Many many tens of millions of people will listen to their elected leader and follow their instructions. This is why Trump got blamed for Jan 6 events and rightfully so.

    The experts who know more than you and I have told me that quotes I mentioned earlier.

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    So the four "lies" you've pointed out:

    1. Vaccines are 100% effective. - Literally no public health expert has ever said this. If they have, it will be very easy for you to source. But the vaccine companies have never claimed this, so why would any other scientist or public health expert.

    2. If you get vaccinated, you will be safe. - Probabilistically, this statement is true. At best, for the most part you're criticizing them for generalizing, and not adding a qualifier like "most likely".

    3. If you get vaccinated, you won't be hospitalized or die. - Again, probabilistically, this statement is true. Same as point 2.

    4. If you get vaccinated, you won't have to wear a mask anymore. - This is only false because so many people selfishly didn't get vaccinated.

    So 3/4 "lies" are either true statements or statements that were never said, and one "lie" amounts to babies whining about a minor and inconsequential extension of the "No shoes, no shirt, no service"" clause. It's a little piece of cloth on your face. Get over it.

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    Default Re: The worst decision of the pandemic. Get ready for empty shelves!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Guru View Post
    You and I both know that NOT every civilian educates themselves or have the resources to educate themselves. Many many tens of millions of people will listen to their elected leader and follow their instructions. This is why Trump got blamed for Jan 6 events and rightfully so.

    The experts who know more than you and I have told me that quotes I mentioned earlier.
    I think it may be a case if misunderstanding their message or the message was simplified and not technically 100% accurate.
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