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Thread: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

  1. #1
    GTX's Avatar
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    Question Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    In past fantasy years, there were unwritten rule to have atleast 3 goalies in a roster for standard H2H points league (2 goalie positions). Because of possible injury, non/starting situation and good/bad matchup.

    Maybe the rule is still there, but I just realised, that in our 12 teams 1 year H2H league, I am the only one with 3 stable goalies.

    Other managers have 2 or even 1 goalie and use 5 allowed FA pickups per week to fill the goalie slots. Quality goalies are/were available in free market recently: Gibson, Samsonov, Sorokin and so on. Funny is, then even me is picking a FA goalie sometimes, when the matchup is good, or I need to win a category. So I have 4 goalies briefly.

    I see two possible reasons:
    1. our league dont have GAA category. So it is only 3 goalies categories vs 9 skater cats.
    2. we have 5 free FA pickups per week - so the managers dont care of using pick up even for 1 day.

    So it comes to basic question: Do I need 3 stable goalies in my roster regarding our league setup (in signature) ?

    Or am I hurting my results for other categories, because I block a roster space for a skater?
    Some days the problem is doubled: I cant start all my goalies (2 slots only and they play all three).

    With 3 stable goalies and some temp FA pickups it looks like I have to win all the goalie stats, but that's not the case.
    My goalie results from first 6 Weeks are: Wins 3-2-1 , SV% 2-4-0, SO 0-1-5 .
    In totals, I have most wins in our league 22 (other guy has 18), SV% is suboptimal 0.911% and 0 Shoutouts.

    So I am leaned towards to trade/drop 1 of my goalie and to use FA goalie pickups from time to time or maybe stream 3rd golie.
    Is it a good approach ROS?

    I didnt put names of my goalies in title of this thread (btw. they are: Helleybuyck, Lehner and Talbot), because it's not about them, it's principial question.

    I welcome your opinions on this.

    Other managers with similar situation/dilema: Feel free to post your league cats and use this thread to discuss this topic.
    Last edited by GTX; November 23, 2021 at 2:34 PM. Reason: typos
    League: H2H, 1 year, 12 teams, no keepers, 5 FA pick-ups / week, unlimited trades.
    Categories: G, A, P, +/-, PIM, PPP, SOG, Hits, Blocks, Wins, SV%, SHO
    Positions: 2xC, 2xLW, 2xRW, 4xD, 2xG, 4xBN, IR, IR+

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    With guys like "Gibson, Samsonov, Sorokin and so on" WW available in a 12 team, then I would normally say yes you should join the streaming game... BUT, I like those three Gs you have - especially in a H2H because Minny's schedule is the very best 3rd G option in the league with the other two you have. Lehner is shaky, but that's because the Knights are still banged up and not on a roll yet. Helley started off poorly (perhaps due in part to his newborn at home). If you have playoffs separate of regular season, then no worries about this slow start now... hold and reap later!

    Only caveat to this is if your league allows the 5 FA pick-ups/week during playoffs... if that's the case, I dislike it 100%, and you may want to begin streaming then as needed to win.
    10 Team H2H Points (Keep 1C, 2W, 2D, 1G, & 1 non-goalie):
    G,A,+/-, PIM, PPG, SHG, GWG, OTG, FWs, Hits, Blks, Maj, Mis, (bonus scoring for D-men makes them comparable to Wing)
    Wins, Saves, GA, Shutouts

    18 Man Roster (4 IR slots) Daily Start: 2C, 4W, 4D, 2G

    C: Zibanejad, Kopitar, Trocheck
    W: Pastrnak, M. Tkachuk, Svechnikov, Guentzel, Bennett, Puljujarvi
    D: Carlson, Makar, Petry, Krug, DeAngelo
    G: Lehner, Jarry, Merzlikins, Holtby, Bishop (IR)

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    Idk it seems like they are using up streams just to do what you are already doing, that can be better served picking up skaters.
    The Team **CHAMPIONS**
    LW(3)- C(3)- RW(3)- D(4)- G(2)- Bench(4)- IR-

    1 Year Point League 11 Teams *Two Year Champion Streak*
    Player- (G)-3 (A)-2 (+/-)-1 (PPP)-1 (SHP)-2 (GWG)-1 (FW)-0.02 (HITS)-0.1 (BLOCKS)-0.2 (SHOTS)-0.05
    Goalie- (W)-4 (GA)- -1 (SV)-0.1 (SHO)-3


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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    I'm a firm believer in 3 starting goalies in a H2H league. If you live by the stream, you die by the stream. Nothing worse than someone plucking your stream and leaving you empty handed. If your getting crushed offensively weekly, I could see a reason for it.

    10 team H2H !Y League (4 keepers - at least 1 must be a D-man OR Goalie)
    Start - 2C, 2L, 2R, 1U, 3D, 2G, 6Bench,​ 3IR (Daily)
    Skaters - G, A, +/-, PPP,
    PIM, HITS, BS, GWG, SOG
    Goalies - Wins, Saves, S%, GAA (Min. 4 starts)
    2007, 2009, 2012, 2016, 2017,
    2019* Champion

    C-
    McDavid, Lindholm(C/R), Schenn(C/R)
    L-Guentzel(L/R), JT Miller(C/L), Robertson,
    R-Batherson, Terry, R. Smith, Garland(L/R)
    D-Barrie, Chabot, Weegar, Edler
    G-​Hellebuyck, Demko, Gibson
    IR-Kucherov​, Eichel,
    E. Kane(L/R)



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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    With only one volume goalie stat (shutouts being more random) you are committing 19% (3/16) of your team to winning 8% (1/12) of your categories.
    But the best thing to do is to see how many skaters games you are losing (or not) by streaming your skater spots rather than the goalie spots and how that compares to other teams in your league

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    thanks all for shared insights!

    Quote Originally Posted by islefan31 View Post
    If your getting crushed offensively weekly, I could see a reason for it.
    Frankly I dont understand this advice. I have average results. See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swels Stewart View Post
    With only one volume goalie stat (shutouts being more random) you are committing 19% (3/16) of your team to winning 8% (1/12) of your categories.
    this is great remark! agree that shutouts are more or less random. and SV% are not volume. I have to think about this more. This is argument leaning to drop/trade the worst goalie.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swels Stewart View Post
    But the best thing to do is to see how many skaters games you are losing (or not) by streaming your skater spots rather than the goalie spots and how that compares to other teams in your league
    My skate results from the start of season are: G 3-3-0 | A 2-3-1 | P 3-3-0 | +/- 2-3-1 | PIM 3-3-0 | PPP 3-3-0 | SOG 1-5-0 | HIT 2-4-0 | BLK 1-4-1
    But I have to say I started the season with 5 IR players ( D.Toews, Rust, Crosby, Scheifele, R.Strome) this definitely did hurt the results.
    I will monitor this and revaluate later. Maybe I will start a new thread to let dobbers comment/review my roster in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhonny View Post
    Lehner is shaky, but that's because the Knights are still banged up and not on a roll yet. Helley started off poorly (perhaps due in part to his newborn at home).
    This is truth, these 2 goalies started the season bad/slow. So the SV% should go higher (it already does).
    Quote Originally Posted by jhonny View Post
    If you have playoffs separate of regular season, then no worries about this slow start now... hold and reap later!
    during playoffs we have trades totally restricted, but waiver pickups are allowed same as in regular season. I hate this too (and so many pickups per week in general), but I am alone against other managers regarding this.

    OK. I am not panicking yet and will keep these 3 goalies, atleast for near future. I may upgrade one of them (Talbot?).
    League: H2H, 1 year, 12 teams, no keepers, 5 FA pick-ups / week, unlimited trades.
    Categories: G, A, P, +/-, PIM, PPP, SOG, Hits, Blocks, Wins, SV%, SHO
    Positions: 2xC, 2xLW, 2xRW, 4xD, 2xG, 4xBN, IR, IR+

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    Sorry, what I meant was how many extra skaters-games-played could you have if you were carrying an extra skater. Are other teams gaining an advantage by having more skater-games?

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swels Stewart View Post
    Sorry, what I meant was how many extra skaters-games-played could you have if you were carrying an extra skater. Are other teams gaining an advantage by having more skater-games?
    agree with Swels, count how many skater games per week you get as comapred to other teams.

    also, are there quality F/D that you can pick up/stream on the waiver wire? while other managers are using their weekly adds on goalies you could potentially use on skaters to add skater starts on light schedule nights. this can be extremely useful in the higher volume counting stats like SOG, Hits, and Blocks.

    my initial inclination is to say drop Talbot but I'm curious what you have to say about the questions above.

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    I agree that you need to look at streaming skaters versus goalies, and I'd look at streaming specific types of players. Those that help you in the grit cats.

    These are your results:
    PIM 3-3-0 | HIT 2-4-0 | BLK 1-4-1

    I suspect that if you use smart moves to grab guys you can make real progress here. The fact that SOG is also a volume category that you're losing means that will get help as well. Some hitters do have decent shot volume.
    10 team H2H dynasty. 33 player roster, 2 round draft. Start 1 G, 1 backup G, 6 D, 12 F arranged in 4 lines of 3. Only Goals, Assists, Save% matter. Having NHL teammates helps.

    G: Shesterkin
    Backup G:Jarry
    D: Carlson, Makar, Letang, Pionk, Fox, KMiller

    F1: Necas, JT Miller, Teravainen
    F2: Schiefele, Wheeler, MacKinnon
    F3: Stamkos, Point, Guentzel
    F4: Benn, Robertson, Seguin


    Bench: 2 empty spots for draftees
    G: (none)
    D: Heiskanen, Klingberg, Ekblad, M Reilly
    F: Bertuzzi, Boeser, Couturier, Giroux, Gurianov, Perfetti, Voracek
    Reserve: Datsyuk

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    Post Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swels Stewart View Post
    Sorry, what I meant was how many extra skaters-games-played could you have if you were carrying an extra skater. Are other teams gaining an advantage by having more skater-games?
    I had to make a deep analysis. Yahoo doesnt have detailed reports about past weeks. Yahoo even counts injured player on scoring slot as played (mangame + 1). So I had to recalculate everything in Excel day by day. It took some hours (and some hours to write this post) and here it is:

    Week
    My
    starts
    wasted skater mangames | Opponent
    starts
    | diff.
    diff. | H2H
    results
    ------------------- notes
    Total Skaters Goalies because of injury* | Total Skaters Goalies | skaters goalies | total
    goalie close lost categories ----------------------------------------------
    1
    38 32 6 5 | 35 28 7 | +4 -1 | 5:6 2:0 Goals by 1
    +/- by 1
    BLK by 1
    opponent picked/streamed some additional goalies, didnt help him for goalie stats
    2 39 30 9 11 | 48 44 4 | -14 +5 | 3:8 1:1 Goals by 1
    PPP by 1
    lot of injuries (R.Strome, Crosby, Rust, Toews, Scheifele)
    3 45 38 7 9 | 47 42 5 | -4 +2 | 5:6 0:2 Shots by 7
    Hits by 4
    Blocks by 5
    I had 2 goalie games more, didnt help. Wins 3:4 and SV% 0.920 vs 0.936 (Kuemper, Saros)
    4
    49 40 9 3 | 47 42 5 | -2 +4 | 7:4 1-2 Assists tied
    Shots by 5
    Hits by 8
    Wins 5:3, but he managed to have shutout and had unreal SV% 0.959 (Sorokin, Quick)
    5
    45 39 6 6 | 51 44 7 | -5 -1 | 1:8 0:1 Shots by 5
    BLK tied
    Wins tied 4:4, SV% close lost 0.928 vs 0.933 (Shesterkin, Nedjelkovic)
    6
    45 38 7 0 | 51 44 7 | -6 0 | 4:6 1:1 +/- tied
    Blocks by 7
    He had 6 wins with 2 goalies (Bobrovsky and Merzlikins)and some smart free pickups - Raanta & Elliott
    I somehow close won the SV%
    7
    54 45 9 3 | 49 44 5 | +1 +4 | 3:8 2:0 Pts by 4
    PIM by 4
    PPP by 2
    Shots by 4
    Wins 4:1, but SV% were close: 0.918 vs 0.915

    I hope this table makes sense and is readable.
    I understand that 7 weeks is not much for precise stats, but anyway.

    Some takes:

    1. Preface statement - I play same 3 goalies from the start of season. Opponents had only 2 goalies and some of them used FA pick for a additional goalie. I played goalie FA once or twice too.
    2. Injuries - I had a lot of injuries from start of the season. See Wasted skater mangames column. I drafted 5 injured players! that affected the results for sure. *Note: I tried to decrement injuries for days when I had full slots (peak days when everybody plays).
    3. goalie slots full - there were total 7 days in those 7 weeks, where all my 3 goalies were starting and had to fight for playing in 2 G slots. So I had 1 goalie start per week wasted.
    4. Shutout - My 3 goalies didnt manage to have single shutout so far. Seems they and their teams arent suitable for shutouts?
    5. Wins - Even I have 3 goalies (volume), I won Wins category just 4 times from 7 weeks. Yeah, they got bad start, and now Winnipeg is slumping (Hellebuyck affected). If I had only 2 goalies and used some ideal FA goalie pickups, I maybe could keep same Wins ratio and help skaters with extra slot.
    6. SV% category - I won only 3 weeks from 7, but won last 2. It fits with last results of my goalies (their performance got better). As it was pointed, this is not a volume stat, so I dont need 3 permanent goalies for this. And FA pickup with good matchup could help a SV% a lot.
    7. Skater cats - I lost some skater categories by close margin. Notes in extra column. Almost 3 cats per week. Partly because of injuries in first weeks. But partly because I could start a skater/skaters instead of goalie and may won atleast some of those categories (point of this thread). See the Difference columns.
    8. this builtin text editor lacks more table features Next time I'l keep it in Excel and post only screenshot of table

    What's your take? Are 3 permanent goalies hurting my results?
    Should I trade 1 goalie for extra slot and play some free goalie pickups accordingly with 5 pickups/week allowed?
    Or I should keep and play three goalies (
    those or others) until ROS and focus on streaming suitable skaters (and 4th goalie sometimes) ?

    Yes, I may have weaker forwards, because when drafting I focused on Goalies and Defenders, or frankly maybe I just did not draft good.
    But I will not post my full roster here, as I dont want to spoil this thread about this goalie topic.
    (I will maybe create new post with my full roster with humble request to have it analysed by others.)
    League: H2H, 1 year, 12 teams, no keepers, 5 FA pick-ups / week, unlimited trades.
    Categories: G, A, P, +/-, PIM, PPP, SOG, Hits, Blocks, Wins, SV%, SHO
    Positions: 2xC, 2xLW, 2xRW, 4xD, 2xG, 4xBN, IR, IR+

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    wow cool analysis, thanks for sharing!!

    I used to draft Vas in thr 1st round if I could just so I'd be competitive with 2 slots filled and an extra skater to stream on light schedule nights/attack a certain category (one I must have picked up Gudas at least 8 times for Hits)

    but I never really knew how many extra games it got me, this helps kinda conceptualize it

    all that said, my league a) has 6 skater and 4 goalie cats, 2) only 4 adds per week, and c) many managers have at least 3 goaltenders so there's less available on the wire.

    all 3 points made above value an extra skater vs goalie for your league as compared to mine. I would definitely go with 2 goalies. that said I'd look for a trade first. Hellebuycks value is low so he might not be a great candidate but even packing a goalie + skater for a better skater (and maybe one that Hits/Blocks/PIMs) can set your roster up better going forward and improve your skaters.

    thanks again for sharing this, love discussing strategy in different leagues!!

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    i was of the mindset for 3 goalies for start 2 in h2h until this season where i only drafted 2. i went with a volume guy (Markstrom) and then grabbed one that should have solid ratios (Swayman) since my setup is similar to yours with 6 skater cats and 3 goalie cats with the intent to punt the Wins and focus more on GAA and SV%. I really didnt plan on Markstrom playing straight bananas to start the season but so far i haven't lost GAA or SV% yet. I don't know what i'm going to do if/when Rask comes back so that could be interesting.

    My thought process was to focus on winning the skater cats because even if i lose all 3 goalie ones, if i win 5 skaters ones each week then i make the playoffs. With that being said, i do like the goalies you have and would probably hold for now. the one thing you may consider is swapping talbot for sorokin to get you some better ratios. with the amount of goalies on your WW i think it'd be tough to trade a goalie too
    12 Team H2H Keep 4

    2 C, 4 W, 4 D, 2 UTIL, 2 G
    G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, FW: W, SV%, GAA

    C: Horvat, Cirelli (W), Larkin, Giroux (W)
    W: Miller (C), Strome (C), Connor, RNH (C), Robertson, Streamer
    D: Carlson, Josi, Hamilton, Ekblad
    G: Markstrom, Swayman
    ​IR: Eichel, Backstrom, Barkov

    12 Team H2H Keep 6.

    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 5 D, 1 UTIL, 2 G
    G, A, +/-, PPP, SHP, SOG, FW, BLK: W, SV%, GAA, SO

    C: Larkin, Scheifele, Kopitar, Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: Garland (RW), Huberdeau, Bratt (RW)
    RW: Suzuki (C), Pastrnak, Strome (C), Robertson
    D: Jones, Josi, Karlsson, Schmidt
    G: Ullmark, Saros, Swayman
    ​IR: Kucherov, Barkov

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    jhonny's Avatar
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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    Since you can keep on streaming in playoffs, I think you could run with 2 goalies. Injury can kill a season though, so maybe wait as long as you can holding 3 Gs and then decide right before the playoffs. Like I said, during the playoffs, you won't have as many goalie conflicts as you will the rest of the season... check out the same night tool to maximize mangames in all positions.
    10 Team H2H Points (Keep 1C, 2W, 2D, 1G, & 1 non-goalie):
    G,A,+/-, PIM, PPG, SHG, GWG, OTG, FWs, Hits, Blks, Maj, Mis, (bonus scoring for D-men makes them comparable to Wing)
    Wins, Saves, GA, Shutouts

    18 Man Roster (4 IR slots) Daily Start: 2C, 4W, 4D, 2G

    C: Zibanejad, Kopitar, Trocheck
    W: Pastrnak, M. Tkachuk, Svechnikov, Guentzel, Bennett, Puljujarvi
    D: Carlson, Makar, Petry, Krug, DeAngelo
    G: Lehner, Jarry, Merzlikins, Holtby, Bishop (IR)

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    Given your detailed analysis, I think you should go down to 2 goalies by trading one away, and then use your weakest skater spot to stream what you need. Opening a streaming spot will let you have a hybrid goalie/skater spot to use to focus on where you can make up the ground.

    If you can trade a goalie & a skater for a skater upgrade, that's where I'd lean. If you can't then goalie for skater is good enough.
    10 team H2H dynasty. 33 player roster, 2 round draft. Start 1 G, 1 backup G, 6 D, 12 F arranged in 4 lines of 3. Only Goals, Assists, Save% matter. Having NHL teammates helps.

    G: Shesterkin
    Backup G:Jarry
    D: Carlson, Makar, Letang, Pionk, Fox, KMiller

    F1: Necas, JT Miller, Teravainen
    F2: Schiefele, Wheeler, MacKinnon
    F3: Stamkos, Point, Guentzel
    F4: Benn, Robertson, Seguin


    Bench: 2 empty spots for draftees
    G: (none)
    D: Heiskanen, Klingberg, Ekblad, M Reilly
    F: Bertuzzi, Boeser, Couturier, Giroux, Gurianov, Perfetti, Voracek
    Reserve: Datsyuk

    Need a Signature? Go to Settings, and you'll find Edit Signature down the list on the left.

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    Default Re: Run 3 stable goalies in standard 1year H2H league with 2 G slots ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stevegamer View Post
    Given your detailed analysis, I think you should go down to 2 goalies by trading one away, and then use your weakest skater spot to stream what you need. Opening a streaming spot will let you have a hybrid goalie/skater spot to use to focus on where you can make up the ground.

    If you can trade a goalie & a skater for a skater upgrade, that's where I'd lean. If you can't then goalie for skater is good enough.
    Think I agree with this.

    Interesting analysis and good for you for doing the work.

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