Tyler Bertuzzi not vaccinated, will not be able to play games in Canada

[Invictus]

It'll still be something players will be upset about if he isn't a liked player. He will 100% socially be a nuisance/distraction/concern.

You don't think him practicing with a mask on will distract players, or people who might be in a situation where they need to be careful for their home life be watching what water bottle is used? Or if there is COVID cases in the organization, don't you think he'd be social target #1?

Has it been said that he will require a mask to practice? That seems odd/unreasonable.

If I'm worried about getting Covid from sharing a water bottle, I would be most worried about those most likely to be contagious (every 3 day testing).
If covid breaks out then the person getting tested every day will have a test of that day saying he was good and remove the cloud of doubt before anyone else.

The ones being a nuisance/distraction/concern will be the ones that don't follow protocols and have riskier habbits (say holding large gatherings and things of that nature). Not saying Bertuzzi is exempt here, but the players will be able to tell who to be more careful around.

[2014olympicgold]

Has it been said that he will require a mask to practice? That seems odd/unreasonable.

If I'm worried about getting Covid from sharing a water bottle, I would be most worried about those most likely to be contagious (every 3 day testing).
If covid breaks out then the person getting tested every day will have a test of that day saying he was good and remove the cloud of doubt before anyone else.

The ones being a nuisance/distraction/concern will be the ones that don't follow protocols and have riskier habbits (say holding large gatherings and things of that nature). Not saying Bertuzzi is exempt here, but the players will be able to tell who to be more careful around.

I def just read the ruling wrong. Gotta wear the mask while attending practice, but not while practicing. So like not on the ice.

For me personally, I get tested twice a week at work, and I wouldn't allow anyone to use my waterbottle while playing hockey. It's just a thing that some people might not be happy with. Social thinking and rational thinking are 2 different beasts when dealing with people.

Also, "cloud of doubt" there's a flaw in that because 1 player might get COVID 2nd, but get tested as the 1st player. Then others trickle in. It's not a "You caught it first so you'll be tested positive first" thing. Everyone's body is different and there is no 100% timeline for the virus and testing.

[Pengwin7]

If tested every day the virus can be caught while still in the latent period (This is the period of time between getting infected with the virus and first becoming contagious)

Post.your.source.


The standard order of COVID is:
1. Exposure to, Contract
2. Contagious, Can Spread to Others, *1-3 days before symptoms felt/shown
3a. Symptoms (btw 2-14 days after exposure)
3b. Test (Day 3-5 recommended if exposure believed to be had)


Feel free to provide your sources.
The reason COVID has spread so massively is that BY.THE.TIME.YOU.HAVE.SYMPTOMS.YOU.ARE.ALREADY.CONT AGIOUS.TO.OTHERS.
Testing daily for COVID can slightly beat the sign of the symptoms. Still... too late.
And... healthy people, especially kids & athletes - typically can't detect the difference between an itchy throat and COVID until it's too late.

If Bertuzzi even so much as sneezes or coughs... it's going to make Red Wing personnel nervous.
He is MOST DEFINITELY NOT SAFER to be around that the other vaccinated players.


[I can tell you, for fact, via multiple sources at my kids schools and parents of kids... that people have gone to test for COVID based on exposure... tested negative... then got symptoms while isolated... then gone back for another test... and tested positive. That's all you need to know to understand that testing isn't enough prevention and that one can't "catch it before it's contagious".]

[Invictus]

The reason COVID has spread so massively is that BY.THE.TIME.YOU.HAVE.SYMPTOMS.YOU.ARE.ALREADY.CONT AGIOUS.TO.OTHERS.
Testing daily for COVID can slightly beat the sign of the symptoms. Still... too late.

Health Canada

True, I mean it's not feasibly for the public to keep testing like athletes are. I was going off the median is 5 to 6 days between exposure and symptom onset. So minus your 2-3 days before onset of symptoms, that's day 3. The latent period is not absolutely known but determined to be 1-2 days. So that's 1-2 days of being contagious while not showing symptoms. There's going to be that latent period, but not always a period of being contagious before showing signs of symptoms. Still once a day testing is a hell of a lot better than every 3 days (if that's in fact what it's set to).

[I can tell you, for fact, via multiple sources at my kids schools and parents of kids... that people have gone to test for COVID based on exposure... tested negative... then got symptoms while isolated... then gone back for another test... and tested positive. That's all you need to know to understand that testing isn't enough prevention and that one can't "catch it before it's contagious".]

You have no source for this one, and I tried finding one too before my post, but no one really states how accurate the tests are at that early stage. I hear all the time of false positives, but never hear of false negatives so.... Then your sifting through opinions trying to find a completely unbiased answer - unlikely.

I still stand by my statement. Those that are safest to be around will be those that adhere to the policies the most and Bertuzzi having stricter policies will still be safer (assuming they are being adhered to).

[Pengwin7]

Health Canada

Please post your link from Health Canada. I'd generally like to learn this (if true).
I'm not aware of anything yet that suggests one can test positive during the "latent period".

A good visual for discussion:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8223005/


The CDC lists preventative measures suggesting "Even if you test negative, you still should take steps to protect yourself and others. See Testing for Current Infection for more information."
This suggests that a negative test isn't sufficient determination that somebody isn't infected with COVID.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html *See FAQ titled "Can someone test negative and later test positive on a viral test for COVID-19?"

As I understand, most often - there is not enough developed COVID in one's system to trigger the "positive" in testing.

It usually has to develop, which leads to symptoms, which - again - make a positive test on a future date... simply... too late to be "caught in time".


MIT studies have shown the following:
*False negatives at
100% on Day 1
67% on Day 4
38% on Symptom Day (!!!)
20% at SymptomDay+3 (!!!)

So if negatives are still possible on Day 4... and "Symptom Day"... and... (wait for it)... 3 days (!!!) into Symptoms...
And knowing somebody is contagious 1-3 days BEFORE symptoms...
then we know that a test isn't a sure bet to catch a POSITIVE COVID case in Bertuzzi....
because these tests can still show up negative, late into the exposure, even if the person positively has COVID.

MIT study.
It's a pretty good school... I believe.

[Invictus]

That's a really good web page (The ncbi one). CDC is meh. Health Canada kind of the same. Guidelines and some information, but no real numbers. I like the numbers...
That's what I was trying to say is I couldn't find an answer on how accurate the tests are after just 24 hours after exposure. I assume hit or miss since the virus hasn't built up enough yet, but I don't have numbers.

The point is to just not get infected, and if adhering to the policies, Bertuzzi, who to my knowledge hasn't been infected up to this point, has a much greater chance of not being infected.

[Feenom]

That's a really good web page (The ncbi one). CDC is meh.
That's what I was trying to say is I couldn't find an answer on how accurate the tests are after just 24 hours after exposure. I assume hit or miss since the virus hasn't built up enough yet, but I don't have numbers.

The point is to just not get infected, and if adhering to the policies, Bertuzzi, who to my knowledge hasn't been infected up to this point, has a much greater chance of not being infected.

Wait til he goes on that Florida trip.

[Invictus]

MIT studies have shown the following:
*False negatives at
100% on Day 1
67% on Day 4
38% on Symptom Day (!!!)
20% at SymptomDay+3 (!!!)

MIT - never heard of it

This for PCR test?
That is not the kind of information about the tests that is let known...

So CDC says you should get tested immediately after exposure if your unvaccinated, but 3-5 days if vaccinated. Which is the type of information why I don't like their info.

By MIT's findings (which I'm going to trust - didn't really look at it to check things like sample size) there's no point in Bertuzzi (or anyone) to even test once a day.

[GinFizz]

we are not even talking about "breakthru" cases...

[2014olympicgold]

You can't really say a stat, get asked for a source and ignore it, then call the counter point (which is sourced) bullspit. It's a really weak stance.

[CMSpiced]

Does anyone know if he will be able to play in NY or any other city/state that has a vaccine mandate for public spaces? I am thinking that he would have to miss all NY games as well.

[2014olympicgold]

Does anyone know if he will be able to play in NY or any other city/state that has a vaccine mandate for public spaces? I am thinking that he would have to miss all NY games as well.

Good question, NBA have said they will not make an exception for players with regional mandates. From what I've found, the NHL hasn't addressed this directly for the states rules, but I would assume they will follow the NBA's stance since there's only like 10-15 players who aren't vaccinated, so it's not worth their time to pressure 2 States on allowing those players play.

[Invictus]

You can't really say a stat, get asked for a source and ignore it, then call the counter point (which is sourced) bullspit. It's a really weak stance.

Not really sure what this is even referring to?

[ericdaoust]

Does anyone know if he will be able to play in NY or any other city/state that has a vaccine mandate for public spaces? I am thinking that he would have to miss all NY games as well.

AFAIK New York has exempted "performers" from their mandate. So musicians/comedians/etc don't fall under this rule. Pretty sure that also applies to athletes.

[2014olympicgold]

AFAIK New York has exempted "performers" from their mandate. So musicians/comedians/etc don't fall under this rule. Pretty sure that also applies to athletes.

Brooklyn Nets/NYKnicks have apparently some hurdles to jump over tho.