Canadian election

[rataylor22]

And as far as the Conservatives go out in Alberta, while many may be pissed at Kenney, the majority out there would rather eat crow with O'Toole and the Conservatives than deal with Trudeau any more. Most of my friends out West are hard core Conservative people who love to hate the Liberal side of things. It's like they move to Alberta and their brain just switches that way. Again, it's more about party beliefs than the leader themselves.

I've seen this a lot and I feel it's a pretty inaccurate correlation. While there are "provincial" and "federal" parties of same/similar name, they are often fairly different. The Alberta NDP is very different than the federal NDP. I also feel the CPC is pretty different from the UCP. So I don't necessarily think voting CPC is an endorsement of Kenney and the UCP, but rather it is disapproving of the Liberal party. I think the UCP are going to have a very tough time winning the next provincial election, specifically if Kenney is still the UCP leader at that time.

[Wonko]

I will be the first to admit I am not well versed in equalization payments. Sounds like Albertans may have a reason to be sore about this but inferring that all Quebecers call Albertans a**holes and hope they have car accidents seems a bit hyperbolic no?

At any rate a Wexit type exit would still leave almost half of Canada's conservatives on their own. Seems like an odd direction to take.

Also, I would hazard to guess that going forward Alberta may not be the "have" province it once was? Oil and Gas going the way it has. Might not be the time to set the rest of the country adrift....

But again, I would really need to read more about this equalization stuff to garner an informed opinion on the topic. hehe.

Back to hockey stuff. It's drafting time

[rataylor22]

Western Canada separation is much more about Canada as a country being to large to govern than any one specific issue. Policies that work for Eastern Canada often hurt Western Canada. Policies that work for Western Canada often hurt Eastern Canada. There is a reason that Europe has so many countries in a smaller area. People in Eastern Canada has no idea what Western Canadian lifestyle is like, and people in Western Canada have no idea what Eastern Canadian lifestyle. It's not "anti-Canadian" to say we need smaller countries to have more impactful regional policy, it just is. It's ok. I love Canada and I love being Canadian, but it's simply too big with too many misaligned interests. The US would also benefit significantly from breaking up into smaller countries.

[doulos]

Canucksfan

I completely disagree with your assessment of the situation and find your closing sentence that 'It's hard to argue with that' to be the exact opposite of what I personally view as true. I find your position hard to actually argue in favour of as I believe it is founded on basic misunderstandings of how things like equalization work.

I also had a really interesting discussion with someone who is a separatist in Quebec recently. I found myself agreeing with them on a lot of points. They despise what Pierre Trudeau did to Quebec when he was in power, and how he essentially sewered Quebec job and pissed away their tax money all in an attempt to undermine the separatist movement. For every Albertan who thinks there is a Trudeau out there who wants them to simply hand over their tax dollars and help out Quebec, there is a Quebec resident who thinks they are also getting screwed over in the situation.

[doulos]

I find a lot of the disagreements boil down to how people view living in a country.

If you're a '**** you I got mine' type then the hard work of living in a vast and diverse country with really different viewpoints and competing interests is not worth it.

On the other hand if you value those things, then the constant give and take of living in Canada is worth it, even though it's often going to be messy and difficult.

[Wonko]

Western Canada separation is much more about Canada as a country being to large to govern than any one specific issue. Policies that work for Eastern Canada often hurt Western Canada. Policies that work for Western Canada often hurt Eastern Canada. There is a reason that Europe has so many countries in a smaller area. People in Eastern Canada has no idea what Western Canadian lifestyle is like, and people in Western Canada have no idea what Eastern Canadian lifestyle. It's not "anti-Canadian" to say we need smaller countries to have more impactful regional policy, it just is. It's ok. I love Canada and I love being Canadian, but it's simply too big with too many misaligned interests. The US would also benefit significantly from breaking up into smaller countries.

You make some valid points for sure.

[LawMan]

I've seen this a lot and I feel it's a pretty inaccurate correlation. While there are "provincial" and "federal" parties of same/similar name, they are often fairly different. The Alberta NDP is very different than the federal NDP. I also feel the CPC is pretty different from the UCP. So I don't necessarily think voting CPC is an endorsement of Kenney and the UCP, but rather it is disapproving of the Liberal party. I think the UCP are going to have a very tough time winning the next provincial election, specifically if Kenney is still the UCP leader at that time.

This is a very fair assessment. If anything the UPC/Kenney cost the CPC seats in Alberta.
UCP does NOT equal the CPC especially since O'Toole was appointed leader and has been moving more to the centre on several issues.
Also, CPC did worse in Alberta then last election (failed to capture 3 seats 2-NDP, 1-Liberal) which is the worst showing by conservative leaning parties I can ever remember.

[Locke]

I honestly don't understand the hatred for Trudeau either. It seems so disproportionate to his record and leadership so far. I mean, I'm not a big Trudeau supporter. He's broken a few (election) promises (election reform being the one I was most pissed about), and made a few questionable decisions, but by and large he's done ok and I just feel meh about him.

This is an honest question - if you hate him, why?!

[doulos]

The Beaverton is my favourite.

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2021/09...-icu-patients/

[rataylor22]

I honestly don't understand the hatred for Trudeau either. It seems so disproportionate to his record and leadership so far. I mean, I'm not a big Trudeau supporter. He's broken a few (election) promises (election reform being the one I was most pissed about), and made a few questionable decisions, but by and large he's done ok and I just feel meh about him.

This is an honest question - if you hate him, why?!

There's lots of reasons.

His consistent embarrassment to Canada on an international stage.

His lack of any real tangible action while in power, couple with all of his broken election promises.

For me, primarily, it's his inability to take a stance on anything. Literally anything. For example, when Canada voted (unanimously) to declare China's treatment of Uighurs genocide, Trudeau and his entire cabinet abstained from the vote. Which is what he does on every issue. He NEVER takes a stance on anything. That's not leadership. That's cowering in the shadows and letting every decision be made for you.

[Canucks_fan18]

There's lots of reasons.

His consistent embarrassment to Canada on an international stage.

His lack of any real tangible action while in power, couple with all of his broken election promises.

For me, primarily, it's his inability to take a stance on anything. Literally anything. For example, when Canada voted (unanimously) to declare China's treatment of Uighurs genocide, Trudeau and his entire cabinet abstained from the vote. Which is what he does on every issue. He NEVER takes a stance on anything. That's not leadership. That's cowering in the shadows and letting every decision be made for you.

There is also all his scandals that don't stick. Black face, SNC, WE and were still waiting for him to get to the bottom of the plane that was shot down in Iran with our Canadian citizens on it like he promised. He's also woefully unqualified for the position.

I pose the opposite. How can you not hate Trudeau as a leader?

[Canucks_fan18]

Western Canada separation is much more about Canada as a country being to large to govern than any one specific issue. Policies that work for Eastern Canada often hurt Western Canada. Policies that work for Western Canada often hurt Eastern Canada. There is a reason that Europe has so many countries in a smaller area. People in Eastern Canada has no idea what Western Canadian lifestyle is like, and people in Western Canada have no idea what Eastern Canadian lifestyle. It's not "anti-Canadian" to say we need smaller countries to have more impactful regional policy, it just is. It's ok. I love Canada and I love being Canadian, but it's simply too big with too many misaligned interests. The US would also benefit significantly from breaking up into smaller countries.

I completely agree with this. This is even a bigger issue in the US. Where they could literally have a dozen countries based on the different states beliefs.

[Invictus]

Western Canada separation is much more about Canada as a country being to large to govern than any one specific issue. Policies that work for Eastern Canada often hurt Western Canada. Policies that work for Western Canada often hurt Eastern Canada. There is a reason that Europe has so many countries in a smaller area. People in Eastern Canada has no idea what Western Canadian lifestyle is like, and people in Western Canada have no idea what Eastern Canadian lifestyle. It's not "anti-Canadian" to say we need smaller countries to have more impactful regional policy, it just is. It's ok. I love Canada and I love being Canadian, but it's simply too big with too many misaligned interests. The US would also benefit significantly from breaking up into smaller countries.

You can even see it just with North and South Ontario.
I do think it's possible to achieve what you're saying without breaking it down to smaller countries. Lots of outdated practices either due to complacency or fear of change.

[doulos]

I'd be okay with just Edson Alberta forming it's own country.

[4T2]

Western Canada separation is much more about Canada as a country being to large to govern than any one specific issue. Policies that work for Eastern Canada often hurt Western Canada. Policies that work for Western Canada often hurt Eastern Canada. There is a reason that Europe has so many countries in a smaller area. People in Eastern Canada has no idea what Western Canadian lifestyle is like, and people in Western Canada have no idea what Eastern Canadian lifestyle. It's not "anti-Canadian" to say we need smaller countries to have more impactful regional policy, it just is. It's ok. I love Canada and I love being Canadian, but it's simply too big with too many misaligned interests. The US would also benefit significantly from breaking up into smaller countries.

This is pretty much spot on

I honestly don't understand the hatred for Trudeau either. It seems so disproportionate to his record and leadership so far. I mean, I'm not a big Trudeau supporter. He's broken a few (election) promises (election reform being the one I was most pissed about), and made a few questionable decisions, but by and large he's done ok and I just feel meh about him.

This is an honest question - if you hate him, why?!

I don't hate Trudeau as much as some, but I find the most disappointing part of his tenure is that he ran on the promise of breathing new life into our political system and being different from every other politician. Two weeks into his first term when he scrapped the idea of electoral reform, it became evident that was a load of crap. And he has done little to nothing to distinguish himself from them since.