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Thread: Eichel landing spot

  1. #271
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    And the fact that Eichel is wanting a surgery that makes it so his quality of life in the future is way better and the Sabres are like "Nah, we don't know the outcome of that for a hockey player. We want this surgery that will need constant tuneup surgeries in the future, but that'll be likely when you're not on our team anymore so we don't care" is sad.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  2. #272
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    And the fact that Eichel is wanting a surgery that makes it so his quality of life in the future is way better and the Sabres are like "Nah, we don't know the outcome of that for a hockey player. We want this surgery that will need constant tuneup surgeries in the future, but that'll be likely when you're not on our team anymore so we don't care" is sad.
    agreed. buffalo is the worst
    12 Team H2H Keep 4

    2 C, 4 W, 4 D, 2 UTIL, 2 G
    G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, FW: W, SV%, GAA

    C: Barkov, Eichel
    W: Connor
    D:
    G: Sorokin
    ​IR:
    NA:

  3. #273
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    I really don't see the problem with what Buffalo is doing here (granted, not releasing the medical records to interested teams is really bizarre -- I don't get that at all).

    Professional athletes typically are restricted from all sorts of activities that teams feel may put their future productivity/ability to play in jeopardy. I don't know about typical NHL contracts, but other major professional sports leagues prohibit all sorts of "normal" activities specifically to protect the team against their "assets" being damaged or lost due to the assumption of unnecessary risk.

    For example, the standard NBA contract specifically prohibits boxing, professional wrestling, motorcycling, moped-riding, auto-racing, sky-diving and hang-gliding.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...allowed-to-do/

    When it comes to medical procedures, there's a reason the team has input on those as well. The players forfeiting those rights is part of the bargain/exchange for accepting millions and millions of dollars in pay.

    Add on top of that, this isn't just any player we're dealing with; Eichel is a franchise-level, top 5-10 player in the league. If healthy and able to play (yes, big "if" there), the return he'd fetch in a trade rightfully would be enormous -- possibly and hopefully, enormous enough to change the fortunes of the Sabres as well. That there apparently isn't yet evidence proving that Eichel's preferred surgery has been successfully performed on a professional hockey player without diminution of performance is quite significant from the Sabres' perspective -- and, I'd suspect, is/would be significant from many other teams' perspective too if they were in that situation.

    Sure, there always has to be "a first" and many other previously risky surgeries on athletes are now considered routine. But would you want your best asset to the first? Chances are it'd be fine. But what if it isn't. What then? As the GM/owner, have you done your job of maximizing value, protecting assets, helping your organization, etc. if the unexpected (but not unanticipated) were to actually happen as a result of the surgery?

    The Sabres really are in a terribly difficult predicament here. Given the drama and uncertainty, they're not getting full value offers for Eichel. But what's the real reason for that? Because other teams know of the rift between Eichel and Sabres' management and are (rightfully) looking to exploit that? Or is it because other teams know that acquiring Eichel means going along with the disc replacement surgery and those teams are equally hesitant about green lighting an "unproven" procedure (again, unproven on a professional hockey player) on a significant asset unless the potential reward (Eichel healthy) far outweighs the risk (the cost of acquiring him)? Or maybe a combination of the two?

    In any event, other than the medical records part, I really don't see how the Sabres' handling of this is at all unreasonable or irrational. As sad as it is from a human perspective, if this was a run-of-the-mill 3rd or 4th line player, I doubt the debate would exist. If that player really wanted the replacement surgery, he'd get it at the risk of forfeiting the contract and teams would then have a test case to see how well it works specifically in the context of continuing to play hockey at a world-class level where the level of risk of things not going well was deemed acceptable given the player. But I tend to think that many teams are likely hesitant to have a player of Eichel's caliber be the first to have this surgery, but have concluded that the risk is worth the potential reward if they can get him for 50 cents on the dollar.
    14 Team H2H Dynasty League (14 keepers, no farm)
    Weekly Starts (3C, 5W, 5D, 1Util, 2G)
    G, A, PPP, SOG, BS, +/-, GAA, W+OTL, SV%


    C: MacKinnon/Eichel/Kopitar//Pinto/Wright
    W: Ovechkin/Toffoli/Necas/Giroux/E.Kane/K.Johnson(IR)/Schmaltz/Bjorkstrand/Drouin
    D: Dobson/Trouba(IR)/Mintyukov/Gostisbehere/Martinez/Edvinsson/York/Gudas(IR)/Tanev
    G: Saros/Demko(IR)/Askarov/DeSmith

  4. #274
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    I find it odd that the Sabres said "rest" was enough, and right then Eichel said he wanted replacement surgery, then a few months later they said Ok surgery. I think there was also issues with how long it took for it to be really diagnosed.

    I get all the issues surrounding the Sabres being in a lose lose situation, especially when you have Wright where teams who are bad should be tanking for him. But if you wanted Eichel back, I think you do anything you can to bring him back, you don't strip him of his C especially if he's out Long Term and no one there takes the C.

    If you are removing the C from Eichel, dead set on him not getting the replacement surgery, and are essentially making it known he's never playing for the Sabres again...why wouldn't you move him in the offseason when the new team could give him the OK for the surgery and he'd be ready for the team for the start of the season. This would make the price higher than it is now because now Eichel is missing games.

    It's just a mess on the decisions the Sabres have made. If you want him around they didn't do everything they could have to keep him. If they don't want him around they aren't doing everything to move him. It's the Sabres being the Sabres and now, they might as well hold on to him until the offseason again. So your actions have essentially made it that your face of the franchise, and the reason why you tanked HARD won't play this yr, and it's not like you got assets for him not playing for you.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  5. #275
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by dejeanneret View Post
    I really don't see the problem with what Buffalo is doing here (granted, not releasing the medical records to interested teams is really bizarre -- I don't get that at all).

    Professional athletes typically are restricted from all sorts of activities that teams feel may put their future productivity/ability to play in jeopardy. I don't know about typical NHL contracts, but other major professional sports leagues prohibit all sorts of "normal" activities specifically to protect the team against their "assets" being damaged or lost due to the assumption of unnecessary risk.



    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...allowed-to-do/

    When it comes to medical procedures, there's a reason the team has input on those as well. The players forfeiting those rights is part of the bargain/exchange for accepting millions and millions of dollars in pay.

    Add on top of that, this isn't just any player we're dealing with; Eichel is a franchise-level, top 5-10 player in the league. If healthy and able to play (yes, big "if" there), the return he'd fetch in a trade rightfully would be enormous -- possibly and hopefully, enormous enough to change the fortunes of the Sabres as well. That there apparently isn't yet evidence proving that Eichel's preferred surgery has been successfully performed on a professional hockey player without diminution of performance is quite significant from the Sabres' perspective -- and, I'd suspect, is/would be significant from many other teams' perspective too if they were in that situation.

    Sure, there always has to be "a first" and many other previously risky surgeries on athletes are now considered routine. But would you want your best asset to the first? Chances are it'd be fine. But what if it isn't. What then? As the GM/owner, have you done your job of maximizing value, protecting assets, helping your organization, etc. if the unexpected (but not unanticipated) were to actually happen as a result of the surgery?

    The Sabres really are in a terribly difficult predicament here. Given the drama and uncertainty, they're not getting full value offers for Eichel. But what's the real reason for that? Because other teams know of the rift between Eichel and Sabres' management and are (rightfully) looking to exploit that? Or is it because other teams know that acquiring Eichel means going along with the disc replacement surgery and those teams are equally hesitant about green lighting an "unproven" procedure (again, unproven on a professional hockey player) on a significant asset unless the potential reward (Eichel healthy) far outweighs the risk (the cost of acquiring him)? Or maybe a combination of the two?

    In any event, other than the medical records part, I really don't see how the Sabres' handling of this is at all unreasonable or irrational. As sad as it is from a human perspective, if this was a run-of-the-mill 3rd or 4th line player, I doubt the debate would exist. If that player really wanted the replacement surgery, he'd get it at the risk of forfeiting the contract and teams would then have a test case to see how well it works specifically in the context of continuing to play hockey at a world-class level where the level of risk of things not going well was deemed acceptable given the player. But I tend to think that many teams are likely hesitant to have a player of Eichel's caliber be the first to have this surgery, but have concluded that the risk is worth the potential reward if they can get him for 50 cents on the dollar.
    This whole posts reeks of "Players aren't humans they are disposable assets and my favorite team can do no wrong".

  6. #276
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Some fair points. I also don't understand stripping him of the captaincy -- I forgot that one. I think Eichel has been fairly unprofessional and tantrum-y with this too insofar as he and his agent taking all of this public. That actually drops my opinion/valuation of him more than the current injury if I'm another team. But that is what it is. For the Sabres to then retaliate publicly by stripping him of the C makes no sense; it's a ceremonial move that does nothing but highlight just how toxic that relationship has gotten and encourages other teams low ball (and very likely gives other players across the league a bad taste about how Buffalo treats its players when the chips are down). So good points there.

    Regarding the diagnosis process, I'll admit I really don't know enough about how that went. On its face though, i don't think it's unreasonable to recommend/try rest before resorting to a pretty involved surgery. And insofar as which of the two surgeries to do once that difference of opinion became apparent, I guess that's the part where I understand the difference of opinion and don't fault the Sabres for holding firm to what they think (as advised by their medical staff) is in the organization's best interest. That calculus may well change over time given that Eichel doesn't seem to be budging either. But the Sabres do have the contractual right to "control" that situation in a manner of speaking, so exercising it with the belief that doing so is best for the organization doesn't rub me the wrong way.
    14 Team H2H Dynasty League (14 keepers, no farm)
    Weekly Starts (3C, 5W, 5D, 1Util, 2G)
    G, A, PPP, SOG, BS, +/-, GAA, W+OTL, SV%


    C: MacKinnon/Eichel/Kopitar//Pinto/Wright
    W: Ovechkin/Toffoli/Necas/Giroux/E.Kane/K.Johnson(IR)/Schmaltz/Bjorkstrand/Drouin
    D: Dobson/Trouba(IR)/Mintyukov/Gostisbehere/Martinez/Edvinsson/York/Gudas(IR)/Tanev
    G: Saros/Demko(IR)/Askarov/DeSmith

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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    This whole posts reeks of "Players aren't humans they are disposable assets and my favorite team can do no wrong".

    Players are assets -- yep, that's basically what they are. Sad but true. It's a business.

    My favorite team can do no wrong ... you obviously don't know me very well.
    14 Team H2H Dynasty League (14 keepers, no farm)
    Weekly Starts (3C, 5W, 5D, 1Util, 2G)
    G, A, PPP, SOG, BS, +/-, GAA, W+OTL, SV%


    C: MacKinnon/Eichel/Kopitar//Pinto/Wright
    W: Ovechkin/Toffoli/Necas/Giroux/E.Kane/K.Johnson(IR)/Schmaltz/Bjorkstrand/Drouin
    D: Dobson/Trouba(IR)/Mintyukov/Gostisbehere/Martinez/Edvinsson/York/Gudas(IR)/Tanev
    G: Saros/Demko(IR)/Askarov/DeSmith

  8. #278
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Fans who cheer for "laundry above everything" are disgusting

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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Fans who cheer for "laundry above everything" are disgusting
    It's really easy to see all the things Buffalo has done wrong and why a player wouldn't (and shouldn't) trust Buffalo's medical staff if you have any mindset but this one.

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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    It's really easy to see all the things Buffalo has done wrong and why a player wouldn't (and shouldn't) trust Buffalo's medical staff if you have any mindset but this one.
    This is another thing. Eichel had that high ankle sprain, maybe the medical teams treatment on that wasn't good and he has little trust in them now.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  11. #281
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Fans who cheer for "laundry above everything" are disgusting
    I don't even know what this means but assume it's directed at me?
    14 Team H2H Dynasty League (14 keepers, no farm)
    Weekly Starts (3C, 5W, 5D, 1Util, 2G)
    G, A, PPP, SOG, BS, +/-, GAA, W+OTL, SV%


    C: MacKinnon/Eichel/Kopitar//Pinto/Wright
    W: Ovechkin/Toffoli/Necas/Giroux/E.Kane/K.Johnson(IR)/Schmaltz/Bjorkstrand/Drouin
    D: Dobson/Trouba(IR)/Mintyukov/Gostisbehere/Martinez/Edvinsson/York/Gudas(IR)/Tanev
    G: Saros/Demko(IR)/Askarov/DeSmith

  12. #282
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    This is another thing. Eichel had that high ankle sprain, maybe the medical teams treatment on that wasn't good and he has little trust in them now.
    lehner being outspoken on how the medical staff treated him speaks to some semblance on how much trust the players may have with the medical staff there too
    12 Team H2H Keep 4

    2 C, 4 W, 4 D, 2 UTIL, 2 G
    G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, FW: W, SV%, GAA

    C: Barkov, Eichel
    W: Connor
    D:
    G: Sorokin
    ​IR:
    NA:

  13. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blues_fan1000 View Post
    lehner being outspoken on how the medical staff treated him speaks to some semblance on how much trust the players may have with the medical staff there too
    Ya, I think he said they 'forced' him to bike with a bad sprain? something like that.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  14. #284
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    Quote Originally Posted by 2014olympicgold View Post
    Ya, I think he said they 'forced' him to bike with a bad sprain? something like that.
    "I mean it was crazy, man. I had a high ankle sprain they had me on the bike one week after. One week after I had my fully torn everything, worst-grade ankle sprain, one week after they put me on the bike in a special boot. I should’ve been walking on it maybe six to eight weeks after (surgery). They had me doing leg presses with 300 pounds three weeks into (rehab) and I re-sprained everything and I had to have surgery.”

    https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/lehner-sympathizes-eichels-injury-rift-sabres/
    12 Team H2H Keep 4

    2 C, 4 W, 4 D, 2 UTIL, 2 G
    G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, FW: W, SV%, GAA

    C: Barkov, Eichel
    W: Connor
    D:
    G: Sorokin
    ​IR:
    NA:

  15. #285
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    Default Re: Eichel landing spot

    2 rumors i've seen today

    Friedman on The Jeff Marek Show talking about how Eichel would be open to go anywhere at this point: "One of the teams we knew that was really big into it was Calgary. Calgary really tried and not once did anyone ever say to me he (Eichel) wouldn't go to Calgary". Talks between the Flames and Sabres likely involved forward Dillon Dube, defenseman Rasmus Andersson, and Flames goalie prospect Dustin Wolf

    Friedman on The Jeff Marek Show: "I don't think Buffalo and Vegas can make a deal because of Krebs...I've heard Buffalo wants Krebs in that deal and I don't think Vegas has any desire to do that".
    12 Team H2H Keep 4

    2 C, 4 W, 4 D, 2 UTIL, 2 G
    G, A, +/-, PPP, SOG, FW: W, SV%, GAA

    C: Barkov, Eichel
    W: Connor
    D:
    G: Sorokin
    ​IR:
    NA:

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