Clutterbuck Hit vs Scheifele Hit

[chuckcouples]

Can someone please explain to me why Cal Clutterbuck is not facing discipline for his hit on Brandon Carlo last night? It's a very similar hit to Mark Scheifele on Jake Evans.

According to the NHL DOPS suspension video (https://www.nhl.com/video/scheifele-...0360/c-8516240). Mark Scheifele was suspended for charging and causing an injury. Quotes are directly from the NHL DOPS video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2juTNuZUpuY

"Evans wins the race to the puck."

Carlo wins the race to the puck.

"Scheifele moving with excessive momentum gained from travelling a considerable distance, finishes his check violently and with unwarranted force with Evans, making significant head contact in the process and causing an injury.”

Clutterbuck was moving with excessive momentum gained from travelling a considerable distance and he finished his check violently and with unwarranted force on Carlo and make significant head contact in the process and caused an injury.

"However, as Evans comes around the net with the puck, Scheifele does not attempt to make a play on the puck with his stick, instead takes one hand off his stick, turns his shoulder and loads up for contact."

As Carlo plays the puck behind the net, Clutterbuck does not attempt to make a play on the puck with his stick, instead Clutterbuck takes his stick off the ice and grabs it with both hands, turns his shoulder and loads up for contact.

The biggest differences I see in the two hits is that Scheifele on Evans is in open ice while Clutterbuck drives Carlo's head into the glass. The other difference is that Carlo, after not being to stand up for 2 minutes, skates off the ice on his own while Evans was taken off on a stretcher.

[PenguinHunter]

No... no one can. Not even the Department itself... it is such a joke!

[forumname]

It definitely has more to do with optics than anyone would like to admit. Open ice hits just look scarier so they get punished way more.

With those types of hits the players are also moving more-or-less in the same direction, where as on the Evans hit they were moving towards each other, which also just adds to the impact and scariness factor.

[tweetdrivr]

One line in the DoPS assessment makes a huge difference...

"...with the outcome of the play and the game already decided..."

Also, If the violence of the hits were the same they'd have stretchered Carlo off as well. Pretty straight forward.


I'll close my thoughts on this entire topic by quoting Maurice Switzer (oft incorrectly attributed to Abraham Lincoln and/or Mark Twain):

"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it."

[COLT.45]

It definitely has more to do with optics than anyone would like to admit. Open ice hits just look scarier so they get punished way more.

Agreed. seeing a guy carrying the puck around the net and getting hit is definitely more common place and less shocking as a viewer even if they check a lot of the same boxes. Also, even though Carlo got smoked, he was back to knee within about 10 seconds on the video as opposed to Evens who lay motionless for a considerable amount of time. Also, as mentioned, Carlo skates away as opposed to being stretchered.

[CMSpiced]

Can someone please explain to me why Cal Clutterbuck is not facing discipline for his hit on Brandon Carlo last night? It's a very similar hit to Mark Scheifele on Jake Evans.

According to the NHL DOPS suspension video (https://www.nhl.com/video/scheifele-...0360/c-8516240). Mark Scheifele was suspended for charging and causing an injury. Quotes are directly from the NHL DOPS video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2juTNuZUpuY

"Evans wins the race to the puck."

Carlo wins the race to the puck.

"Scheifele moving with excessive momentum gained from travelling a considerable distance, finishes his check violently and with unwarranted force with Evans, making significant head contact in the process and causing an injury.”

Clutterbuck was moving with excessive momentum gained from travelling a considerable distance and he finished his check violently and with unwarranted force on Carlo and make significant head contact in the process and caused an injury.

"However, as Evans comes around the net with the puck, Scheifele does not attempt to make a play on the puck with his stick, instead takes one hand off his stick, turns his shoulder and loads up for contact."

As Carlo plays the puck behind the net, Clutterbuck does not attempt to make a play on the puck with his stick, instead Clutterbuck takes his stick off the ice and grabs it with both hands, turns his shoulder and loads up for contact.

The biggest differences I see in the two hits is that Scheifele on Evans is in open ice while Clutterbuck drives Carlo's head into the glass. The other difference is that Carlo, after not being to stand up for 2 minutes, skates off the ice on his own while Evans was taken off on a stretcher.

As a reference, I am not a fan of any of the teams/players.

I think that they are two completely different hits.

1. The clutterbuck is much more a a "hockey" hit, to the boards, playing the puck, etc. This is a type of play you see all the time in every game.
2. The scheifele hit is a hockey play that the NHL has been wanting to get out of the game for a long time. It seems to start from Torres on Seabrook imo. Someone playing the puck around the net, with the forechecker coming in with speed. Contact is made when the player has the puck in a defenseless position. The main difference is that Evans is in a much more defenseless position.
3. Also, the puck was in the net, timing, etc.

[chuckcouples]

One line in the DoPS assessment makes a huge difference...

"...with the outcome of the play and the game already decided..."

Also, If the violence of the hits were the same they'd have stretchered Carlo off as well. Pretty straight forward.

One line in the DoPS assessment makes a huge difference...

"...with the outcome of the play and the game already decided..."

Also, If the violence of the hits were the same they'd have stretchered Carlo off as well. Pretty straight forward.

The outcome of the play was already decided when Clutterbuck hit Carlo. The puck was moved along the wall "before" Clutterbuck made the hit just like the puck was put into the net "before" Scheifele his Evans.

No difference there.

Neither game was decided when the hit was made. Lots of teams have scored twice in the final minute to tie games up in the past. The most recent one that I can think of was Jan 5, 2020 when San Jose scored an empty net goal at the 19:00 mark of the 3rd period to take a 2 goal lead. Vrana scored at 19:13 to make it a 1 goal game and Oshie scored at 19:45 to tie the game. Eller scored in OT to give the Capitals the win.

No difference there.

Evans was stretchered off while Carlo tried to get up, found out his legs did not work, staggered around for a few seconds before falling back to the ice and kneeling in a fetal position for 30 seconds and then was lifted to his feet and basically glided off the ice with help from teammates and the training staff.

Stretcher vs unable to use his own legs. What's the difference again?

[Invictus]

Scheifele play: there was no battle for the puck. Evans had complete control of it for some time where as Carlo did not. Carlo saw and expected engagement from Clutterbuck, whereas Evans did not expect to be freight trained.
A lot more direct contact from Scheifele on a play that was dead (goal was scored you could see that happening from long away)
Scheifele's being in the final minute of the game was displayed as unnecessary and attempt to injure. That same appearance is not prevalent in Clutterbuck's hit as we see that play all the time, but Scheifele one is rare.
They are different.

Honestly, just because Carlo didn't have to be stretchered off, still was horrific to see. For someone who has had multiple concussions previously you can't help but wonder what kind of long lasting damage was inflicted.

[chuckcouples]

As a reference, I am not a fan of any of the teams/players.

I think that they are two completely different hits.

1. The clutterbuck is much more a a "hockey" hit, to the boards, playing the puck, etc. This is a type of play you see all the time in every game.
2. The scheifele hit is a hockey play that the NHL has been wanting to get out of the game for a long time. It seems to start from Torres on Seabrook imo. Someone playing the puck around the net, with the forechecker coming in with speed. Contact is made when the player has the puck in a defenseless position. The main difference is that Evans is in a much more defenseless position.
3. Also, the puck was in the net, timing, etc.

1. Once you start using the terms "hockey" hit, you lose all credibility. Both hits have a guy trying to hit a guy who just made a play. Both Evans and Carlo were eligible to be hit. Both Clutterbuck and Scheifele were skating with "excessive speed" having travelled a great distance. There are more rules in the NHL rulebook protecting players getting hit into the boards then there are on open ice hits.

2. Which player is more defenseless, the guy who, while carrying the puck, chooses to cut towards the front of the net or the guy who is skating face first towards the end boards to retrieve the puck? Evans had the puck and could do whatever he wanted with it while Carlo was going back to get the puck so he did not have a choice in what direction to be skating. (I am not blaming Evans for getting hit, he did what he had to do to score a goal and getting injured is not his fault at all)

3. Both Evans and Carlo had the puck when Scheifele/Clutterbuck decided to make a hit. Neither Evans nor Carlo had the puck when they actually got hit.

[Invictus]

To sum up my point:
Scheifele hit used excessive force at a point in time where force was unnecessary. Clutterbuck used reasonable force at a reasonable point in time.

Both outcomes were horrific to see happen.

3. Both Evans and Carlo had the puck when Scheifele/Clutterbuck decided to make a hit. Neither Evans nor Carlo had the puck when they actually got hit.

Difference is Evan's didn't have the puck because the puck was already in the net (play is now over). This was an obvious outcome even to Scheifele.
Clutterbuck's play regularly occurs.

[rataylor22]

Lmao. I did not realize this was the hit CC was referring to. God the comedy. Nobody should feel the need to engage as to why this hit is significantly different from the Scheifele hit. Like continue arguing in circles and yelling at clouds if y’all wish, but it’s very very obvious how significantly different these two hits are, and anyone trying to compare them is just a disengenuous blow hard desperate to be mad about something.

But FWIW, suspend this hit too, I’d be fine with that. Why isn’t it a suspension? That is not my call.

[Bobby4Ever]

ok who's the next desperate blowhard up?

[audiopile]

I didnt like either one. However;

Sheif’s suspension was harsh. 2 games is what i thought would be reasonable. I still believe his mind was made up as to what he was going to do at the top of the circles.

Clutterbuck hit Carlo very hard but it was a routine play, happens all the time. Carlo’s concussion as a result is simply unfortunate.

[Eli26]

According to NHL Rule 42, a charging penalty: Shall be imposed on a player who skates, jumps into or charges an opponent in any manner. Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner.

[Thunder]

1. Scheifele travels for a distance of 180 ft gaining momentum throughout until starts easing up midway though the defensive zone. Clutterbuck does not travel anywhere near the same distance nor is he in a straight line as he has to go around the net. As a result, the speed of the two players is not comparable at all. Speed and distance are of the utmost relevance to understanding what constitutes charging

2. Carlo and Clutterbuck are actually moving in the same direction. Evans is moving in the direction opposite to Scheifele’s, though at much slower speed. Any layperson with a basic understanding of physics understands the force of the impact will be significantly greater in the second scenario. That goes to the issue of the violence of the impact, again an essential component of “charging”

Frankly, I fail to understand how one could see the two plays as even remotely similar.