Thoughts on teams taking advantage of the salary cap rules?

[Daydream Nation]

I feel like you have never spoken to an athlete before. These guys are among the most competitive people on earth. Guys at Kuch's level work their asses off to get where they are; past injuries like this, and the perception of them, also affect future earning potential so there is legitimately 0% chance that Kucherov sits out the season unless the injury is severe enough to keep him out of nearly all the season. He had hip surgery, his recovery came in right around the length expected for that (see Seguin). So I fail to see the suspicious aspect unless you think they never did the surgery or found a dr. to perform said surgery on an uninjured man, and in either case I have some ocean front property in Iowa that I can offer you for a steal

And it’s pretty clear you are generalizing.

[butch]

I would imagine the insurance company paying (insert ltir player name here) would have an interest in keeping tabs of said players progress .

[2014olympicgold]

I would imagine the insurance company paying (insert ltir player name here) would have an interest in keeping tabs of said players progress .

This is a good point, however I don't know how many companies are out there that do this. So teams could just turn to another company for their business if one pushes back on a Kucherov LTIR payment.

[Pengwin7]

Good thread.
I can see the NHL fixing this issue via the next GM meeting.
I think teams should have to stay within the cap during playoffs - and we might see this going forward.
But for now, that's not how it works.
For now, the NHL system/structure allows it, so TB is within their rights.

I do - definitely - think the NHL will change this going forward.

[2014olympicgold]

Teams likely gaining a bit of space this offseason with players selected off their roster by Seattle can open up the opportunity for it.

Like half the NHL is over the cap right now. I don't know how the league could just snap their fingers and tell teams to figure it out in a normal yr, but with Seattle coming in, I think they can tell teams NHL Cap extends into the playoffs.

Teams under the cap, cap total - $78,123,104 (+3,376,896)
Teams over the cap, cap total - $85,967,553 ($-4,467,553) (This number changes a bit once Leafs/MTL/Oilers/WPG set their playoff rosters because like Hyman and Price are LTIR still)

Add a 32nd team, I think it can be pretty easy to get teams to be cap complacent in the Playoffs.

[skinnypete88]

The point on salary being paid out through the regular season seems like a big roadblock to changing this rule.

So if you're going to make teams cap compliant during playoffs but cap compliancy fluctuates daily then does that mean you need to extend paying players into the playoffs? And if you go down that road then you have teams going on varying lengths of playoff runs or not being in the playoffs at all. From a finance department perspective that's a nightmare to forecast your budget.

Or what you pay players during the regular season but then the definition of cap compliant changes during playoffs to AAV?

[2014olympicgold]

The point on salary being paid out through the regular season seems like a big roadblock to changing this rule.

So if you're going to make teams cap compliant during playoffs but cap compliancy fluctuates daily then does that mean you need to extend paying players into the playoffs? And if you go down that road then you have teams going on varying lengths of playoff runs or not being in the playoffs at all. From a finance department perspective that's a nightmare to forecast your budget.

Or what you pay players during the regular season but then the definition of cap compliant changes during playoffs to AAV?

I'd do this. Just make the Cap a number thing and not a real pay day issue during the playoffs.

[Dennis]

The point on salary being paid out through the regular season seems like a big roadblock to changing this rule.

So if you're going to make teams cap compliant during playoffs but cap compliancy fluctuates daily then does that mean you need to extend paying players into the playoffs? And if you go down that road then you have teams going on varying lengths of playoff runs or not being in the playoffs at all. From a finance department perspective that's a nightmare to forecast your budget.

Or what you pay players during the regular season but then the definition of cap compliant changes during playoffs to AAV?

That would likely eliminate most trading. Why would playoff teams be taking a playoff cap hit from when players were playing for other teams for the first 2/3 of the season? The NHL's cap works the way it does so your cap is only affected by the players actually on the team as the games are played.

Capfriendly just shows, and most people think of the cap, as the sum of all annual cap-hits because it's simplest to think of it that way.

edit: To get around this, were it implemented, you would probably see traded players being moved across several teams retaining AAV and then people would just be complaining about that

[2014olympicgold]

That would likely eliminate most trading. Why would playoff teams be taking a playoff cap hit from when players were playing for other teams for the first 2/3 of the season? The NHL's cap works the way it does so your cap is only affected by the players actually on the team as the games are played.

Capfriendly just shows, and most people think of the cap, as the sum of all annual cap-hits because it's simplest to think of it that way.

I thought the thing he said was more:
"The 81.5mill cap is extended as a numebr into the playoffs, but doesn't effect players pay".

So literally everything is the same in the regular season. But once the post-season starts, teams will have to abide by a cap of $81.5mill

[Dennis]

I thought the thing he said was more:
"The 81.5mill cap is extended as a numebr into the playoffs, but doesn't effect players pay".

So literally everything is the same in the regular season. But once the post-season starts, teams will have to abide by a cap of $81.5mill

Yes, and that doesn't make sense because as I understand what he was saying, their "cap hit" would be their AAV. So, Boston's cap hit for Taylor Hall for the regular season would be about $1.33M (1/3 of $8M AAV with 50% retained) but his playoff "cap hit" would be $8M (or $4M if retainment is considered?)

[skinnypete88]

Yes, and that doesn't make sense because as I understand what he was saying, their "cap hit" would be their AAV. So, Boston's cap hit for Taylor Hall for the regular season would be about $1.33M (1/3 of $8M AAV with 50% retained) but his playoff "cap hit" would be $8M (or $4M if retainment is considered?)

Right! You see it can't be as simple as one standard during the regular season and one during the playoffs because the two operate differently and can't necessarily co-exist with each other or flow from one standard to the other like that. The mechanics are mind bottling.

So when a flat AAV during the playoffs is ruled out we circle back to having to pay people through playoffs. And then you have a huge problem where from a financing perspective you probably have to budget like your team is going to win the Cup but then be forced to pay out whatever percentage you have left if they get eliminated/don't make the playoffs. And there are lots of teams who could have trouble cutting big cheques like that for an entire roster

[2014olympicgold]

Would there really be an issue with having Hall's Boston Cap hit just the number during the playoffs?

I think the idea of the system would just put a number on the Playoff Roster Salary limit. Hell you could make a number even higher in the playoffs like "15% higher than the NHL regular season". You could say, your players NHL Cap hit on your team come game 82 is what it is come game 83. Your cap ceiling though, can be 15% higher (93.725mill this yr) to eliminate the big issues.

[Dennis]

Would there really be an issue with having Hall's Boston Cap hit just the number during the playoffs?

That's pretty much what we have now.

Kucherov's playoff cap hit would be $0 in the same vein that Halls would be $1.33M.

[skinnypete88]

I thought the thing he said was more:
"The 81.5mill cap is extended as a numebr into the playoffs, but doesn't effect players pay".

So literally everything is the same in the regular season. But once the post-season starts, teams will have to abide by a cap of $81.5mill

With front loading contracts and all other contract or cap machinations an AAV playoff cap could be very different from the regular season. Matthews AAV is 11.6 million but his salary each year goes from 15.9 to 10.4 to 7.9

[2014olympicgold]

That's pretty much what we have now.

Kucherov's playoff cap hit would be $0 in the same vein that Halls would be $1.33M.

hmmm very true.

Could a rule about players need to be on the NHL roster to be eligible for playoffs? Make a thing like MLB with "these are the players we have eligible for this round" and do something with a cap number regarding that.