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Thread: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

  1. #31
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post

    So maybe to clarify - If we are using a backup player pick it would only for teams that are in the same division where only one of them can make the playoffs.

    Example - I draft Clayton Keller - because I think Arizona is making playoffs - my backup pick would be David Perron because if Arizona misses the playoffs - St. Louis will make it.

    This would not be a case where you could draft Clayton Keller and then name Yanni Gourde of the already clinched Tampa Bay Lightning. Cause yes, that would be taking away players from other people to draft.

    But only one of Keller and Perron are going to be in the playoffs ~ so then you could pick your replacement at the current value of where you are making your pick. Instead of waiting 4 days and 20 picks later and then find out Arizona loses 3 straight games and Blues win themselves into playoffs. Then other people drafting this see St. Louis making a move and pick the top guys and you are left with a middle 6 forward instead of the top Blues guy.
    What if I'm the next person to draft and actually prefer St. Louis over Arizona to make the playoffs, and would haven chosen Perron instead of Keller? Not fair to have one person conditionally holding a player in case theirs doesn't make the playoffs. That was their choice to pick one of the bubble teams, so that should be the risk we take. Leave replacements until the end, and if they are scraps, then so be it.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    What if I'm the next person to draft and actually prefer St. Louis over Arizona to make the playoffs, and would haven chosen Perron instead of Keller? Not fair to have one person conditionally holding a player in case theirs doesn't make the playoffs. That was their choice to pick one of the bubble teams, so that should be the risk we take. Leave replacements until the end, and if they are scraps, then so be it.
    Yes, that is definitely a risk of doing this. Does the benefit of it counter the risk of having to start a couple days earlier? I am good with whatever majority wants. Doing the replacement allows us to not have to worry about additional picks mid-draft or post draft.

    I do see the concern of the potential of two close teams at the regular season like Arizona and St. Louis

    From previous playoff drafts, this is a pretty conservative group. And no one is going to take a huge risk on either Arizona or St. Louis until later in the draft. And by that time the regular season will almost be done and we should hopefully have a pretty good idea which team of St. Louis or Arizona is going to make the playoffs. Ideally when these players are being picked the regular season only has one or two games left. At this point it will likely be Team B HAS to win two games to make playoffs and Team A has to lose one of the final two games for Team A to make playoffs.

    So if we think the replacement players should not be picked at the same time as the original pick. Then we have to allow for another day or two at the end of the draft to ensure that there is sufficient time to make the additional/replacement picks.

    The main benefit of the replacement options being picked at the same time is that the draft would be able to be completed in shorter time frame. as we would not have to wait for someone to make their replacement picks whether it is mid-draft (when team is mathematically eliminated) or end of draft.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Last year we completed 182 picks in 9 days. - Last year we had the benefits of knowing the first round matchups for significant time and no games being played to alter things.

    So based on these assumptions:

    - Less picks because less teams in playoffs - say 150 range of players drafted (30 less than last year)
    - 30 less players should shorten the draft by 1 or 2 days
    - The NHL playoff start May 14 or 15 - based on the current schedule ending.


    Is it realistic to think we can start on May 6 and have sufficient time? Which is 8 days before May 14th assumption of potential starting day. Or do we need to start a day or two earlier?

    Obviously we will need to be flexibile with NHL announcements and schedule changes. But I am think we should aim
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by horrorfan View Post
    What if I'm the next person to draft and actually prefer St. Louis over Arizona to make the playoffs, and would haven chosen Perron instead of Keller? Not fair to have one person conditionally holding a player in case theirs doesn't make the playoffs. That was their choice to pick one of the bubble teams, so that should be the risk we take. Leave replacements until the end, and if they are scraps, then so be it.
    But happens if I want to choose Kucherov, but the person in front of me selects him?

    That's the luck of a playoff pool. If you really want to select Perron, you would have to take him earlier. These are teams that will be struggling to make the postseason. It will probably be a few rounds before they start being taken.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    I just see a lot of potential problems arising with this conditional replacement pick concept.

    It allows you to mark someone else's sleeper pick before they get a chance to make it. That not only makes their sleeper pick difficult to get at the round they wanted but creates a disincentive to risk taking that player at all, just in case that replacement pick is taken from them retroactively by the team that named them. It encourages people to avoid a replacement pick reserved player and just pick an unpicked player and unreserved player. And then, it creates an incentive for even more replacement players being named, as if you still want to draft someone's replacement pick, there is a chance your pick will be lost and you will have to turn to your own replacement pick. What if someone just doesn't name a replacement pick? They don't get a player? We could have a situation where people lose their picks due to replacement picks, and then either those teams either have to draw on their own replacement pick, or they would have to make another pick at the end in the replacement round.

    If the goal of this system is time saving I really dont know if it's worth it. If people like the idea because of the strategy involved, I guess that's another story. But as I outlined I see a lot of ways it could get out of hand.

    12 team H2H Most Cats Wins; Keep 6/winner keeps 7; G A PPP +/- SHP SOG HIT BLK PIM // W SV GAA SV% SHO
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 6D, 2G, 5 bench

    C - McDavid, Crosby, Tavares
    LW - DeBrincat
    RW - Meier, Miller
    D -
    G - Jarry

  6. #36
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by pmorrow View Post
    I just see a lot of potential problems arising with this conditional replacement pick concept.

    It allows you to mark someone else's sleeper pick before they get a chance to make it. That not only makes their sleeper pick difficult to get at the round they wanted but creates a disincentive to risk taking that player at all, just in case that replacement pick is taken from them retroactively by the team that named them. And then, it creates an incentive for even more replacement players being named, as if you still want to draft someone's replacement pick, there is a chance your pick will be lost and you will have to turn to your own replacement pick. What if someone just doesn't name a replacement pick? They don't get a player? We could have a situation where people lose their picks due to replacement picks, and then either those teams either have to draw on their own replacement pick, or they would have to make another pick at the end in the replacement round.

    If the goal of this system is time saving I really dont know if it's worth it. If people like the idea because of the strategy involved, I guess that's another story. But as I outlined I see a lot of ways it could get out of hand.
    The Replacement pick would have to be from the team that they are fighting for a playoff spot with

    IE

    St. Louis/Arizona
    Montreal/Calgary
    Dallas/Nashville
    Boston/Rangers


    So there would not be any trickle down effect as mentioned.

    My pick and replacement pick would have to be from the same division.

    So I would pick Roope Hintz and Filip Forsberg. - only one of them are going to make the playoffs. Therefore they are both eliminated from the pick list.

    If Dallas makes playoffs, Hintz is on my team. If Nashville makes playoffs, Forsberg is on my team.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    Therefore they are both eliminated from the pick list.

    If Dallas makes playoffs, Hintz is on my team. If Nashville makes playoffs, Forsberg is on my team.
    Okay, that's a bit different than what I thought you meant. I thought the replacement pick coming off the board was conditional on the original pick's team being eliminated - not both coming off the board at once. I still am not sure, it seems fairer to have those picks made at the end/when the team is eliminated instead of letting a team pull two names off the board at once.

    12 team H2H Most Cats Wins; Keep 6/winner keeps 7; G A PPP +/- SHP SOG HIT BLK PIM // W SV GAA SV% SHO
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 6D, 2G, 5 bench

    C - McDavid, Crosby, Tavares
    LW - DeBrincat
    RW - Meier, Miller
    D -
    G - Jarry

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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by pmorrow View Post
    Okay, that's a bit different than what I thought you meant. I still am not sure, it seems fairer to have those picks made at the end instead of letting a team pull two names off the board.
    Yes I am good with whatever we can come up with as a group.

    The challenges we face are:

    -finding a level of fairness (matchup knowledge, picks, replacements, COVID)
    -a start time that isn't too far from the start of the playoffs,
    - the way to deal with some divisions starting playoffs earlier than others
    -
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    So if we think the replacement players should not be picked at the same time as the original pick. Then we have to allow for another day or two at the end of the draft to ensure that there is sufficient time to make the additional/replacement picks.
    This is my preferred option, and don't mind starting a day or two earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by newfcollins View Post
    But happens if I want to choose Kucherov, but the person in front of me selects him?

    That's the luck of a playoff pool. If you really want to select Perron, you would have to take him earlier. These are teams that will be struggling to make the postseason. It will probably be a few rounds before they start being taken.
    Well, since Tampa will make the playoffs that person won't need a conditional pick.

    Your example doesn't mention conditional picks, which is the issue for me. If someone picks my guy before I do, so be it. But I don't want someone to get the choice and hold two players at the same time because they opt to risk choosing from a bubble team. That's their decision and if it pays off, good for them. If it doesn't, then find another player at the end.

    ***

    Anyway, obviously majority rules. But at the moment I don't see overwhelming interest in conditional picks at the same time of the draft.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    There was also some interest expressed of drafting deeper rosters.

    What is everyone's preference on the total player pool?

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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinHunter View Post
    There was also some interest expressed of drafting deeper rosters.

    What is everyone's preference on the total player pool?
    Same as last year relative to the number of teams. I prefer not to go too much deeper, and if some teams need replacements, it would be better if they were slightly better than the dregs. Also, deeper rosters mean we would have to start even earlier.

    EDIT: With fewer teams in the playoffs, I don't mind a bit deeper but for the reasons above I think we need to leave some options for replacement players and buffer time.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    I will go with the deepest roster possible people think we can get done in time (without starting too early). I love drafting grit grinders and darkhorses.

    12 team H2H Most Cats Wins; Keep 6/winner keeps 7; G A PPP +/- SHP SOG HIT BLK PIM // W SV GAA SV% SHO
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 6D, 2G, 5 bench

    C - McDavid, Crosby, Tavares
    LW - DeBrincat
    RW - Meier, Miller
    D -
    G - Jarry

  13. #43
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    I think if we go with the replacements at the end format, we probably only need a day, maybe a day and a half. Likely no more than a dozen replacements realistically, right?

    In the Bubble Playoff league we basically said any replacement was acceptable as long as there were credible reports of the player not playing (other than coaches decision) - so COVID, injury, personal reason to opt out (Rask), etc. Essentially any sincere reason other than a change in heart about a selection haha.

    People just need to be on the ball about letting us know which selections they want to replace so we can quickly make the replacement draft order.

    12 team H2H Most Cats Wins; Keep 6/winner keeps 7; G A PPP +/- SHP SOG HIT BLK PIM // W SV GAA SV% SHO
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 6D, 2G, 5 bench

    C - McDavid, Crosby, Tavares
    LW - DeBrincat
    RW - Meier, Miller
    D -
    G - Jarry

  14. #44
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    Cool.
    12 team Yahoo Roto keeper (keep 3)
    9 F, 6 D; roster 3 G max
    G,A,PPP,SOG,BLKS,HITS - W,SO,SV%,Saves

    F: B Tkachuk, Stutzle, Eriksson Ek, Necas, Konecny, Cooley, Boldy, Lehkonen, Tippett
    D: Dahlin, Seider, Matheson, Durzi, Addison, Mintyukov
    G: Hill, Husso

    IR:

    Bench: L Hughes, Merzlikins, Terry, Tuch

  15. #45
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    Default Re: 2021 Dobber NHL Playoff Draft - Discussion

    I'm definitely IN!!
    Zorro says "vote for Dobber"
    Angus is my best friend at dobberhockey..

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