Greatest GOAT of all sports

[Invictus]

Takeru Kobayashi
Revolutionized hot dog eating!

[senryu]

Henri Richard and his 11 Stanley Cup victories wants in on this game.

But that approach concludes with Yvan Cournoyer being a better player than Gretzky and Mario and Orr combined, which doesn't make sense to me.

[hockeyrobot]

Takeru Kobayashi
Revolutionized hot dog eating!

Bahaha. New GOAT.

[Daydream Nation]

My out of left field pick for greatest athletic achievement is speed skater Eric Heiden at the 1980 Winter Olympics. 5 golds in the distances from 500m to 10,000m. That's comparable to someone winning the 100m dash and the marathon and three distances in between in about a week and a half. It is unimaginable.

That being said, the GOAT is Serena.

I'm just not giving it to anyone who plays a niche or primarily Olympic sport. Tennis, golf, speed skating, swimming, sprinting ect.... You can be the most dominant and the best in your sport but not the greatest GOAT.

[Rylant]

I find it interesting the lack of mention of Gretzky in this thread. He dominated so overwhelmingly that second place isn’t close, in my opinion...

Rylant

[stevegamer]

I'm pretty solidly convinced that Brady is NOT the greatest football player of all time, so that's an easy no for me. QB of one of the greatest dynasties, yes.

Jim Thorpe would be a candidate if it dominance over an era.

The thing is that pure athletic abilities are increasing over time at the high end.

[Eskimo Brother]

I find it interesting the lack of mention of Gretzky in this thread. He dominated so overwhelmingly that second place isn’t close, in my opinion...

Rylant

Gretzky was amazing, but there's a debate to be made for either Orr or Lemieux over him.

[Stanley]

- I'm no fan of Brady. (I'm still angry at the Green Bay call to kick that field goal on 4th and goal...)

- Comparing "GOATs" across sports is always a fool's game given the differences in team vs individual contributions, etc. Comparing across eras even harder. Comparing team sports to individuals is silly. But it's fun!

- I am biased towards N.A. pro sports since that's what I know best, the competition format is so consistent and they are recognized as the pinnacle of their sport. Pro tennis and golf are legit, cycling could be if it wasn't so obviously drug infested. World championships, Olympics, European domestic soccer leagues, Champions League, etc are hard to compare given their infrequency, different formats and different competition, etc. "Niche" sports like crossfit, triathlon, rowing, mogul skiing, etc are even harder to place.

- I think championships alone can't be the benchmark (see the Cournoyer argument earlier in this thread). Need to combine titles with personal excellence.

- I think longevity is relevant. Doing it at the highest level for a long time is hard. Think about the sheer volume of great players, coaches, strategists that are scheming to beat you, but fail. Your commitment (and good luck) wrt your personal health is so important. And again, personal excellence during the entire career matters (sorry Gordie Howe...)

- I give no relevance to "what might have been" if not for injuries, retirements, scandals, whatever. You either did it, or you didn't. Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't count. Orr, Lemieux, etc may have been better than Gretz, too bad we'll never know.

- Recency bias is hard to overcome. By the time McDavid is realistically in the conversation will we (or our kids) still give Gretz the credit he deserves, or will he just be some old guy who played back before the internet?

- Performance relative to your peers in your sport is very important. Being undisputed GOAT in your sport seems like a minimum requirement for the overall GOAT. Gretz's point total being 50% greater than #2 is still laughably mind boggling.

- I think the arguments against NFL in general based on the clear offense/defense split and contributions per play actually should be arguments IN FAVOR of NFL/Brady. If you can win 7 titles DESPITE not being able to impact every play on both sides of the ball, you're doing something right. Any implication that Brady is just a game manager executing the plays the coach calls is naive. For some reason, I admit I don't extend the same consideration bo MLB players...

- I think Brady is legitimately the NFL GOAT. I understand the Montana, Rice, etc arguments, but 7 titles, over 20 years, with 5 SB MVPs, and 9 SB appearances, top 10 rank in most relevant statistical cats and the obvious ability to lift his teammates and establish a dedication to winning is nuts. To join a new, chronically underperforming team at age 42, attract wildcard talents like Gronk and AB and help change the culture and ultimately win the SB in his first year there is insane.

- Serena and Gretzky seem like obvious contenders. Although Gretz had Messier, etc and that team was unstoppable in their prime so the Stanley Cups may count less, but those stats! Jack vs Tiger is an ongoing debate among many. Same with Jordan v Lebron. When the dust settles will there be an obvious career GOAT in men's tennis, once we factor in titles, H2H records, etc? I'm a huge soccer fan but the Messi/Ronaldo/Pele/Maradona argument is unwinnable, hard to say if any of them transcend to ultimate GOAT.

- I do love the Terry Fox suggestion. To me, easily the most inspirational athletic achievement ever. As I get older, I get teary eyed when I see footage of him running. Hard to place his accomplishment in any comparable context though.

With all that said, I grudgingly say Brady did his thing (and is still doing it) better than anyone has ever done their thing. And it totally shouldn't factor in, but that he was a 6th round pick makes it so comical.

[rataylor22]

I'm just not giving it to anyone who plays a niche or primarily Olympic sport. Tennis, golf, speed skating, swimming, sprinting ect.... You can be the most dominant and the best in your sport but not the greatest GOAT.

Niche? Basketball and football are more of niche sports than tennis, golf, swimming, and sprinting lmao. Get your head out of the US and experience some things.

[Axeman33]

I agree, calling anyone the GOAT of all time is damn near impossible. There will be bias no matter what side you choose to promote.

[4T2]

Haters gonna hate

Everyone seems to love to hate on successful people, especially if their success is so much further ahead of everyone else. No one wants to admit that while these people are blessed with talent, that ultimately it was their hard work which lead to their success. The world is full of untapped potential. Guys like Brady, Tiger, Phelps, Jordan and Gretzky put in effort that most of us would never dream of to reach the heights they did.

Sure there are blemishes on everyone’s track record. But that doesn’t take away from these guys being the GOATs of what they do.

[Daydream Nation]

I'm pretty solidly convinced that Brady is NOT the greatest football player of all time, so that's an easy no for me. QB of one of the greatest dynasties, yes.

Jim Thorpe would be a candidate if it dominance over an era.

The thing is that pure athletic abilities are increasing over time at the high end.

Damn impressed at what Brady did this season and it is huge for his legacy. He's such a winner and gets his teammates to buy in which was so apparent this season. Then Edelman comments that it was Brady not Belichick who created the winning culture in NE. Guys like Rodgers, Manning, and Favre had better physical tools but Brady has something more. The guy's been winning Super Bowls for nearly 20 years.

[2014olympicgold]

Tony Hawk/Micheal Phelps

[Axeman33]

Hank Aaron! GOAT!

[Axeman33]

A meme that keeps popping up on my Facebook says this:

Terry Fox ran a full marathon every day, on one artificial leg, for 143 days until he died raising millions of dollars for a disease that eventually took his life. He didn't do it for glory, or for teammates, for fans, or a city. He did it because he felt it was right.

Pretty hard to argue with that statement on greatness.