Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Declining Studs

  1. #1
    Rep Power
    0

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Declining Studs

    Recent capped article inspired me to write a question I've often thought about.
    Letang.
    I agree: "Never cheap in a cap league, but worth rostering".
    I disagree: "sell him to a contender". No one that is a contender has $7mln in cap space.
    What in the world could I trade him for? I would need to take back $7mln in cap. No way I get anyone that is younger or entering peak years, that's an obvious misbalance in value.
    I could trade him for another mid 30s guy with a salary of $7mln. Why do that?

    Just hoping someone can suggest possible options. My thought, after much consideration, has always been that their trade value declines faster then their actual fantasy value and I've already allocated the cap space ... so ride them until they are worth ~zero and/or retire and lose them for nothing. Happy for new ideas!
    31 team permanent keeper. 12F, 6D, +1 Skater, 2G, 5 Reserve, 8 Prospects (744 skaters, 62 goalies, 248 prospects)
    Goalie - 20 W, 2.5 save, -15 GA, 15 SO
    Skater - 25 point, 2 PIM, 1 Hit, 2 Block, +/- 10, TOI 0.2/min, Special team points +5, Fight 5
    Strict NHL salary cap & floor

  2. #2
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Deity

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Have you tried simply putting him on your trade block to see if there's even interest in him?

    When healthy (and yes thats the key part), there's few Dmen out there who can offer what he does. The issue is most simply don't trust him to stay healthy and to be honest, he hasnt given many a reason to believe otherwise. Plus, the fact that his age starts with a "3", which is the kiss of death in fantasy hockey, doesn't help his value either.
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink

    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


    "Cleavage is like the sun. You can look, but dont stare.. Unless you're wearing sunglasses."

  3. #3
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Titan

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Every league is different, and there's always different options depending on every manager's situation. I agree that Letang may be tough to sell high on. Contenders never have a lot of space, but they are always looking to upgrade. Getting someone like Ekblad and some futures would balance the cap, and provide a decent age/production replacement. Ellis, Dumba, Petty, Slavin, Girard, and names or that ilk are the ones I would be targeting.

    It's always an option to rise the guys like Letang, especially if you yourself are contending.

    In the end, it's always up to you whether you can get a fair price. The point of the article is to voice that Letang's value may be at a high point, and if you were going to try and sell, now would be the time to do so.
    Associate Editor for DobberHockey (Wednesdays). Click that Ramblings button on the the menu bar!
    (No I don't have a hockey problem...)

  4. #4
    Rep Power
    0

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Thanks very much. I'll take a look into those targets.
    No way meant as criticism of the article, quote the opposite, it got me thinking!
    31 team permanent keeper. 12F, 6D, +1 Skater, 2G, 5 Reserve, 8 Prospects (744 skaters, 62 goalies, 248 prospects)
    Goalie - 20 W, 2.5 save, -15 GA, 15 SO
    Skater - 25 point, 2 PIM, 1 Hit, 2 Block, +/- 10, TOI 0.2/min, Special team points +5, Fight 5
    Strict NHL salary cap & floor

  5. #5
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Titan

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperLight View Post
    Thanks very much. I'll take a look into those targets.
    No way meant as criticism of the article, quote the opposite, it got me thinking!
    Didn't take it as criticism, I always love feedback. I was just trying to be helpful in clarifying my thinking. Cheers!
    Associate Editor for DobberHockey (Wednesdays). Click that Ramblings button on the the menu bar!
    (No I don't have a hockey problem...)

  6. #6
    Location
    Vancouver Island
    Rep Power
    40

    Dobber Sports Jedi

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    There's no one answer to this question
    It's one thing to look at your D and see Letang as an upgrade...
    but at 6.8m is he a big enough upgrade?

    I think the answer really comes down to the overall state of your D. If' it's a clear weak point - you find a way to make it work.

    Learning the intricacies of determining where, when & how to spend cap on players/positions is a real skill.

    There are teams in almost every cap pool that's at the cap ceiling but has several bad contracts and just can't figure out how to compete.
    Then there are other teams that you scratch your head wondering how they put together 'THAT' team under the same cap as everyone else.

    I don't believe you obtain Letang expecting to sell high on him. You obtain him expecting to ride him into the ground.
    Two years left at 7.25m he'll provide Letang level value for the remainder of the contract.
    regression won't strike him before it's done -- so there's that at least.
    Follow me on twitter: @doylelb4

  7. #7
    Location
    Philadelphia area
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Grand Master

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    I agree that all leagues are different.

    I took over a team in cap league 2 years ago that wasn't good and had gaping issues in net. I wanted to try and deal solid vets for youth. Got no offers I remotely liked for Letang and a couple other guys, so decided to just ride them out. Cap wasn't a problem for me, so I just kept making incremental moves, and I won my cap league last year, admittedly no playoffs, but regular season title. I was in the bottom third of the league as far as allocated salary, so I had the cash to splash for a Letang sort of guy, but I would've only wanted a forward, and I was kicking butt in skater cats, so I decided to not make a move. Now that I'm a contender, I can just keep on making sure I have a good cushion, and work everything around that.

    Interestingly, EB mentions Ekblad as a guy to target, and he's a guy I made a move for when he became available, gave up Boeser for him. I felt that I can find expensive productive forwards easier than expensive productive defenders, and Ekblad is great because he's young, good and still growing.
    Want a Signature? Go to Settings, and you'll find Edit Signature down the list on the left.

  8. #8
    Moses's Avatar
    Moses is offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    4,242
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Genius

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    You could look at a guy like Jeff Skinner. One year removed from 40 goals. Top 20 in SOG over the past three seasons. Last year’s forgettable season has plummeted his value. Buy low? Depending on the league settings maybe you can ask for a decent add.
    - I said... "God damn this tablet is heavy!"

  9. #9
    GavinC's Avatar
    GavinC is offline
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    525
    Rep Power
    19

    Dobber Sports Apprentice

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Quote Originally Posted by Moses View Post
    You could look at a guy like Jeff Skinner. One year removed from 40 goals. Top 20 in SOG over the past three seasons. Last year’s forgettable season has plummeted his value. Buy low? Depending on the league settings maybe you can ask for a decent add.
    In a cap league Skinner is a risky play though no? For sure he's one year removed from 40 goals, but he only ever cleared 30 twice before that. Especially given there's no extra points for goals, he's barely a consistent 60 point guy for $9 million.

    But back to the original point, as Steve and Lucafen said, it's a tricky game moving older vets. I agree with you that now is not the time to sell Letang; A season removed, most smart GMs are always still wary of bandaid players, and will discount their past season heavily. Even though it might seem smart to sell him before this compressed schedule season possibly sees him miss most of it due to injury, I would imagine most GMs are pretty aware the toll it will take on bandaid kids, and will be happy to sit back and wait.

    Not an original idea by any means, but for me it's always best to try and sell these guys at your trade deadline. Emotions are high, money is on the line, and just like real GMs, fantasy managers are most prone to making bad moves at the deadline.

    But if you're competing just ride him into the ground.
    Ice Cap

    Dynasty, 32 team cap league (1:1 NHL Cap/Floor), H2H weekly, points (G: 1 / A: 1 / Blks: 0.1 / HTS: 0.1 / SOG: 0.1 / W: 1 / SO: 1 / SV: 0.05)
    Start 12 F, 6 D, 1 G, 4 Bench, 27 Minors/Prospects

    Roster

  10. #10
    Magicstew's Avatar
    Magicstew is offline
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    5,131
    Location
    Stonewall, Mb.
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Superstar

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    "Not an original idea by any means, but for me it's always best to try and sell these guys at your trade deadline. Emotions are high, money is on the line, and just like real GMs, fantasy managers are most prone to making bad moves at the deadline.

    But if you're competing just ride him into the ground."

    Good advice Gavin, just need to hope Letang not on IR at deadline - will give you some options then. Need to sell him on the "go for the win now" opportunity, there will be buyers. Not many players like Letang when he is playing, and Penguins in win now mode for the next few years.
    Piranha Hockey League est 1990 - Oakley Doakley's - 16 teams
    Pts only W=2 OL=1 SO=3 Auction Draft

    WHL - est 2016 Expansion - Glasgow Kiss - 24 teams
    25 pro players / 10 minor league players
    G,A,+/-,PPP,SOG,Hits,Blk,PIM,FOW, W,Sv,GA,SHO


  11. #11
    Rep Power
    0

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Thanks all very much.
    If I could get Ekblad I'll do that.
    Else, test market at deadline.
    Else, ride into the ground. I'm a contender and probably more value out of him for another 4 years than anything I could get in a trade. I rode D. Sedin until the end and the final years of production were worth losing him for nothing to retirement.
    31 team permanent keeper. 12F, 6D, +1 Skater, 2G, 5 Reserve, 8 Prospects (744 skaters, 62 goalies, 248 prospects)
    Goalie - 20 W, 2.5 save, -15 GA, 15 SO
    Skater - 25 point, 2 PIM, 1 Hit, 2 Block, +/- 10, TOI 0.2/min, Special team points +5, Fight 5
    Strict NHL salary cap & floor

  12. #12
    Rep Power
    0

    Dobber Sports Blue-Chipper

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Took a while to find a match. Fantrax calculated/updated salaries and despite every effort in line up juggling, I remained $2mln over cap
    So moved Couture 31, $8M, proj. 59 pts for
    Danault, 27, $3.1M (1 more year), proj. 56 pts and better peripherals
    No doubt Couture had a down year, Danualt an up, Danault will be pushed down the line up in coming years by the youngsters and Danault gets a pretty big raise next year (though have to love contract years during COVID)
    I also like that Danault seems to me a late bloomer. Maybe production is sustainable.
    31 team permanent keeper. 12F, 6D, +1 Skater, 2G, 5 Reserve, 8 Prospects (744 skaters, 62 goalies, 248 prospects)
    Goalie - 20 W, 2.5 save, -15 GA, 15 SO
    Skater - 25 point, 2 PIM, 1 Hit, 2 Block, +/- 10, TOI 0.2/min, Special team points +5, Fight 5
    Strict NHL salary cap & floor

  13. #13
    Rep Power
    32

    Dobber Sports Veteran

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    A guy like that you have to sell during the season while he's healthy and producing. It's counter-intuitive, but at the same time you're almost guaranteed he'll get injured and his production will be derailed.

    But I agree, this won't make sense during the offseason. You have to be patient and wait for the right moment.
    10 Team Limited Keeper (Keep 8) Points Only
    SALARY CAP (Player Salaries) League
    20 Player Teams = 12 Fwd 6 D 2 G

    My team: ???

  14. #14
    Location
    Philadelphia area
    Rep Power
    50

    Dobber Sports Grand Master

    Default Re: Declining Studs

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperLight View Post
    Took a while to find a match. Fantrax calculated/updated salaries and despite every effort in line up juggling, I remained $2mln over cap
    So moved Couture 31, $8M, proj. 59 pts for
    Danault, 27, $3.1M (1 more year), proj. 56 pts and better peripherals
    No doubt Couture had a down year, Danualt an up, Danault will be pushed down the line up in coming years by the youngsters and Danault gets a pretty big raise next year (though have to love contract years during COVID)
    I also like that Danault seems to me a late bloomer. Maybe production is sustainable.
    I like that move.
    Want a Signature? Go to Settings, and you'll find Edit Signature down the list on the left.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •