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Thread: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    I dislike Trump as much as the next guy... okay.. .maybe not as much, but he's an awful president.

    Can we please ask though... what if.. JUST WHAT IF... He's RIGHT! election fraud has always been a concern and issue to some extent or another.

    Russia -4yrs ago
    Florida in 2000

    just the last two examples.

    If he came across intelligible vs. a rambling lunatic. perhaps he could open a few centrist eyes.
    It's likely he is right. It's just unlikely it helped the Democrats.

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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonko View Post
    They are an example of how elections are done right.
    I don't think this is necessarily correct. Huge voter suppression efforts, gerrymandering, 12+ hour long voting lines, etc. No first world democratic country is looking towards the US as a shining example of how to run elections, and no third world country trying to improve their election practices should be using the US either. As democracy goes, US elections are generally a tire fire.

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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    I don't think this is necessarily correct. Huge voter suppression efforts, gerrymandering, 12+ hour long voting lines, etc. No first world democratic country is looking towards the US as a shining example of how to run elections, and no third world country trying to improve their election practices should be using the US either. As democracy goes, US elections are generally a tire fire.
    You are quite right. I misspoke. I was referring only to the methods of tabulating ballots and all the checks and balances along the way. It is nearly impossible to commit any large scale fraud in US elections now with all the safeguards put in place.

    As for how the elections themselves are run. like you say, there are huge issues. Gerrymandering and voter suppression need to be address in a meaningful way.

    Thanks for pointing this out. My mind was only concentrating on the post election issue regarding the tabulation and counting of the ballots.
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    I don't think this is necessarily correct. Huge voter suppression efforts, gerrymandering, 12+ hour long voting lines, etc. No first world democratic country is looking towards the US as a shining example of how to run elections, and no third world country trying to improve their election practices should be using the US either. As democracy goes, US elections are generally a tire fire.
    You can add the electoral college to that list as well. The political analysts I listened too discussed how even if Puerto Rico and Washington DC were added as states and California was split in thirds, the GOP would still have a slight electoral college advantage. And the geographical advantage the GOP has not only affects the presidential election but also the Senate. Why does the senate majority leader have so much f'n power?
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    I dislike Trump as much as the next guy... okay.. .maybe not as much, but he's an awful president.

    Can we please ask though... what if.. JUST WHAT IF... He's RIGHT! election fraud has always been a concern and issue to some extent or another.

    Russia -4yrs ago
    Florida in 2000

    just the last two examples.

    If he came across intelligible vs. a rambling lunatic. perhaps he could open a few centrist eyes.
    If we remove our bias and ask ourselves if election fraud is possible - yes, I absolutely believe it is possible. The issue I run into however is the facts to support wide spread election fraud suggest otherwise. Another issue I have is that Trump was crying foul far before the election even took place. From the sideline, it appeared that he was setting himself up for one of two outcomes: (1) Trump won the election (2) Trump lost the election because of fraud. Fast forward 3 weeks after the election and Trumps team still cannot produce evidence, while his legal team is having lawsuits thrown out left and right. Although election fraud is possible, the evidence continues to show that it did not play a role in this years election.

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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    Personally, my opinion.
    The Democrats are as dirty as the Republicans in regard to their level of corruptions.
    Trumps not really a republican.
    The system is broken. They just go about their business in variances of each other.
    Only difference we will see is Biden won't tweet daily and bring added attention to scandals or fake news etc.

    Hate to say it, but when you start unpacking some of this stuff and look into it... there's actually some truths mixed into this mess.

    I heard an interview yesterday from a reporter talking about Biden's history of corruption and voting records..
    Had Trump been able to articulate this beyond yelling and two word sentences or personal family attacks. Biden loses.

    Republican party is so broken they nominated a non-Republican that went 100% against their core conservative values.
    Democratic party is so broken they nominated one of the most worn out political families in America (Clinton) & followed up with a man that is clearly losing mental faculties that are integral to properly running the country.

    Biden - Trump.. they both suck. The US is screwed either way... pick your poison/
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Of course the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans but Trump has been excessive as far as terrible leadership goes (assuming you aren't an old rich guy who just wants to get richer).
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    Of course the Democrats are just as bad as the Republicans but Trump has been excessive as far as terrible leadership goes (assuming you aren't an old rich guy who just wants to get richer).
    Depends how you define bad. Just off the top of my head, Democrats want health care for poor and middle class Americans. They want to fight climate change, support LGTB, and support unions. On the other hand, the GOP gave a huge tax break to the rich, ignored climate change, fights against unions, want to make cuts to our social security and medicare/medicaid, and is trying to eliminate the ACA. Ignoring all the culture war tactics, the GOP governs for the top 1% while the the democratic party fights for the middle class.
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    Depends how you define bad. Just off the top of my head, Democrats want health care for poor and middle class Americans. They want to fight climate change, support LGTB, and support unions. On the other hand, the GOP gave a huge tax break to the rich, ignored climate change, fights against unions, want to make cuts to our social security and medicare/medicaid, and is trying to eliminate the ACA. Ignoring all the culture war tactics, the GOP governs for the top 1% while the the democratic party fights for the middle class.
    There's no such thing as a perfect (or anything close to it) political party. Both have their flaws.

    Im all for health care for the poor and middle class, fighting climate change, supporting LGTBQ but I personally don't support unions. To me, that is their flaw in what you have brought forward, but again, that's just my opinion. You could love all the things you listed, including the support for unions. To each their own.
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Just FWIW, unions are generally bad and bad for their members. Lots of union members hate their unions but have no choice but to be a part of them.

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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Just FWIW, unions are generally bad and bad for their members. Lots of union members hate their unions but have no choice but to be a part of them.
    An opinion of course that is not shared by many many people.

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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    An opinion of course that is not shared by many many people.
    The "right-to-work" states, which is a bullshit name by the way, have a 3% less average wage compared to "union" states. Who do unions benefit overall? Look no further than the fact that the rich and the GOP want to bust unions.
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    The "right-to-work" states, which is a bullshit name by the way, have a 3% less average wage compared to "union" states. Who do unions benefit overall? Look no further than the fact that the rich and the GOP want to bust unions.
    Yeah, it's complicated for sure. I have worked in both union and non-union environments and they both have their pros and cons depending on what you value.

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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Nation View Post
    Depends how you define bad. Just off the top of my head, Democrats want health care for poor and middle class Americans. They want to fight climate change, support LGTB, and support unions. On the other hand, the GOP gave a huge tax break to the rich, ignored climate change, fights against unions, want to make cuts to our social security and medicare/medicaid, and is trying to eliminate the ACA. Ignoring all the culture war tactics, the GOP governs for the top 1% while the the democratic party fights for the middle class.
    The Dems... Obama/Biden specifically brought in drone legislation that had led to thousands of civilian deaths & have made severe inroads into freedom of speech. Blocking a lot of what the right is trying to say. Some of it arguably is justifiable... but not all of it.

    We're watching in real time the collapse of the modern day world empire. I doubt it will appear as a dramatic collapse as the Roman, Ottoman or Mongolian empire in history books. But a collapse non-the-less.

    Glenn Greenwald was on the Joe Rogan podcast pre-election. it's a hugely fascinating, almost unbiased (everyone has inherent biases) look at the US. One of the best Rogan episodes I've listened to, if not just flat out the best.

    In no way did it lessen my dislike for Trump.. but it opened eyes to the left & Biden. On one hand it made me really happy to be Canadian. On the other... it makes me wonder how f---ed up our party systems are behind closed doors as well.
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    Default Re: Trump Finally Allows Formal Transition to Biden

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post

    In no way did it lessen my dislike for Trump.. but it opened eyes to the left & Biden. On one hand it made me really happy to be Canadian. On the other... it makes me wonder how f---ed up our party systems are behind closed doors as well.
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