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Thread: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

  1. #46
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post

    Let's see this evidence of yours.
    Let's see "lots of examples" of me writing that 14 year olds should be shown "no mercy."
    It would be quite telling, quite cowardly actually, for you not show this proof.
    Scroll through any Trump thread. You'll find endless examples.

    Notice I didn't mention age in my post, because it's not relevant. 14 is more than old enough to know what you're doing and whether it is acceptable behavior. Many young black kids go to jail (juvenile detention) for this kind of stuff, indicating that ~some~ 14 year olds must be accountable for their actions while ~others~ are not. It's quite cowardly to hind behind that single irrelevant caveat.

  2. #47
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Again, to put things in perspective for anyone who hasn't actually read about what this kid did...

    https://www.si.com/hockey/news/what-...itchell-miller
    https://www.azcentral.com/story/spor...go/3735555001/

    Four years ago, Miller admitted in an Ohio juvenile court to bullying Meyer-Crothers, who was tricked into licking a candy push pop that Miller and another boy had wiped in a bathroom urinal. Meyer-Crothers had to be tested for hepatitis, HIV and STDs, but the tests came back negative, according to a police report.

    Meyer-Crothers, also 18 and who now lives in Detroit, said Miller had taunted him for years, constantly calling him "brownie" and the "N-word," while repeatedly hitting him while growing up in the Toledo suburb. Other students at their junior high confirmed to police that Miller repeatedly used the "N-word" in referring to Meyer-Crothers.

    "He pretended to be my friend and made me do things I didn't want to do," Meyer-Crothers said in a phone interview. "In junior high, I got beat up by him. … Everyone thinks he's so cool that he gets to go to the NHL, but I don't see how someone can be cool when you pick on someone and bully someone your entire life."

    Meyer-Crothers, who is developmentally four years behind his peers, said he was sick to his stomach when he saw on his phone that Miller had been drafted.

    He texted his parents, writing: "Did you see this?"

    "It hurt my heart to be honest," Meyer-Crothers said. "

  3. #48
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Scroll through any Trump thread. You'll find endless examples.

    Notice I didn't mention age in my post, because it's not relevant. 14 is more than old enough to know what you're doing and whether it is acceptable behavior. Many young black kids go to jail (juvenile detention) for this kind of stuff, indicating that ~some~ 14 year olds must be accountable for their actions while ~others~ are not. It's quite cowardly to hind behind that single irrelevant caveat.

    There are zero examples. You are just pretentiously making stuff up, as you always do.

    And you're shifting the goalposts.

    Define what is "accountable" for this person's actions when he was 14 (totally relevant).
    Death penalty ?

  4. #49
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    I believe he meant to call you "Fake News" Mr. Taylor. I may be wrong, but That's what it sounds like.

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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    There are zero examples. You are just pretentiously making stuff up, as you always do.

    And you're shifting the goalposts.

    Define what is "accountable" for this person's actions when he was 14 (totally relevant).
    Death penalty ?
    You still refuse to comment on this specific victim. You clearly minimized the impacts you experienced from your noted experiences, but are you suggesting that your experiences are on the same level as what Isaiah Meyer-Crothers went through at the hands of Mitchell Miller?

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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    You still refuse to comment on this specific victim. You clearly minimized the impacts you experienced from your noted experiences, but are you suggesting that your experiences are on the same level as what Isaiah Meyer-Crothers went through at the hands of Mitchell Miller?
    I'm suggesting there is no right or wrong here. And so my comments on the "specific victim" would be irrelevant.
    All I know for sure is the Coyotes obviously felt Miller was worth taking a chance on. They'd know him better than I would.

  7. #52
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    I believe he meant to call you "Fake News" Mr. Taylor. I may be wrong, but That's what it sounds like.
    He caught me. Just like when Trump claims it, it's a total shame these things aren't fully documented or anything.

    As for "shifting the goalposts", one person is trying to create unnecessary goalposts to snake their way out of their own words, while the rest of us are correctly determining those goalposts don't exist. You hate to see it.

  8. #53
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Can't imagine why you didn't go into politics, rataylor.
    Oh, that's right, because you're not the bre... er, hmmm.
    Best not to finish that one.
    We all know you love to run to the mods when you start losing at your own game.

  9. #54
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    So 14 year olds who bully like this are finished ? Not entitled to life after they bully.
    That's the message here.

    Gotcha.
    What about the victim, Isaiah Meyer-Crothers? Mentally delayed Black Kid, essentially a 10 year old in the body of a 14 year old. Why are so concerned about Mitchell Miller's life after they bully but you refuse to talk on behalf of the victim.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    My biggest pause in this story is that he was 14 (or younger) when the incidents happened.
    In general, one should avoid rushing to judgement (easier to say/write than do, I know), but I think it's especially important when we're talking about punishing an adult for something he did when he was a kid.
    Again, your stance seems to be that your far more concerned for the future of a kid who relentlessly bullied Isaiah Meyer-Crothers than you are for the victim. Further still, you seem to take offense when others here speak out against the actions of a 14 year old, White, clearly physically dominant individual who choose to physically and mentally bully a black mentally delayed child.

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    I was bullied on the school bus by older kids. For years. Many were. By kids around Miller's age.
    Forced to play knuckles, having my head slammed against the window by someone behind me.
    And I often had mandatory recess fights - actual bareknuckle fist fights.

    I don't have an ill thought about any of them. None of it.
    If I saw them today, we'd probably have a beer and laugh about it all.
    It's called resilience.
    It's a good thing to develop.

    Now before you rush to put words in my mouth - "he says bullying is ok!!!" "It's acceptable behaviour!!!" - consider this:
    You don't know Mitchell Miller. You don't know the first thing about him.
    He may very well be a monster.
    But he may very well be far less, someone the Coyotes obviously thought could balance the scale (or better) for his past wrongdoings.
    None of us know the right approach for someone like this.

    I'm just not sure cancelling someone over his youthful actions is the answer.
    I know this - cancelling someone for posing the question (or disgustingly implying that he's only defending Miller because of racism) - well, that seems really strange. If you can't even have the discussion, then stuff like this will never be understood.
    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    I'm suggesting there is no right or wrong here. And so my comments on the "specific victim" would be irrelevant.
    All I know for sure is the Coyotes obviously felt Miller was worth taking a chance on. They'd know him better than I would.
    Seems the only time you actually pay any attention to Isaiah Meyer-Crothers is when you attempt to equate yourself to him and his experiences. Knuckles and Bare Knuckle fights. 14 year old you vs other 14 year old kids.

    Isaiah Meyer-Crothers wasn't able to fight back. He had mental issues that put him further behind the 8ball than the colour of his skin had already impacted him. Yet you claim "resilience"... and "it's a good thing to develop". For sure it is. But how difficult is it for a Black, developmentally delayed child to develop such resilience that you so proudly display?

    Again I ask, What about the Victim Auston's Willy?

  10. #55
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    To AustonWilly's, there is a very clear wrong in this situation.

    The kids mom said Miller rollerblades in front of their house in a way that they interpreted it as "We may not be in school together, but I'm still here". Just another thing that shows how disconnected he is.

    For a thought towards the hockey team and hockey world though:
    The Coyotes didn't get ahead of this. They should have said it when they drafted him. They missed the opportunity to be a leader. A Arizona newspaper got ahold of the story, then the player and team responded when they were contacted. If the team really wanted to help him become a better person, wouldn't a smart team get ahead of the reports and say, "we know he has a history, but coupled with the new HDA and our own training, we hope we can make Miller a better person". A month prior to Miller being drafted, Gutierrez (CEO/President of Yotes) was selected to be apart of the NHL Committee tasked to help stop racism. How is your first pick as a teams CEO was someone convicted of what Miller did? Another disconnect was the Coyotes never made a comment about the Meyer-Crothers family by name. It was all about rehabbing Miller's rep and hockey's rep. There's 4 parties involved, Coyotes, Hockey in general, Miller, and Meyer-Crothers. They didn't mention the victim at all.

    Miller said he went above and beyond the court ordered letter of apology, Meyer-Crothers family said an in person apology never happened.

    I hate to say it though, other teams would have drafted him because USA Hockey, U of North Dakota, and other teams have already said, "Your talent trumps your off ice issues". So an NHL would have drafted him at some point. So the question is, has he changed or do teams still not care about off-ice issues if the talent is worth the risk. Hockey as a sport has shown over the last 2-5yrs of news that the teams are ok with off-ice racial/assault issues if the talent is there.

    Coyotes bungled up their execution in drafting an issue, the player bungled up how he dealt with it over the last 4+yrs, the sport has bungled up how it's dealt with POC. This is just another piece of evidence.
    12 Team, H2H, Keep 6 (in Bold)
    G, A, Pts, PPP, FW, SOG, Hits, Blocks
    W, Saves, S%, GAA, Game Started
    2C, 2LW, 2RW, 4D, 1Util, 2G, 5BN, 2IR, 1IR+, 1NA

    C: Horvat, Trocheck
    LW: J. Robertson, Byfield (C), Guenther
    RW: Pavelski (C), Giroux (C), Svechnikov (LW)
    D: Fox, Makar, Bouchard, Morrissey, Gudas
    Util: Meier (LW, RW)
    G: Oettinger, Georgiev, Samsonov, Woll


  11. #56
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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    I'm suggesting there is no right or wrong here. And so my comments on the "specific victim" would be irrelevant.
    All I know for sure is the Coyotes obviously felt Miller was worth taking a chance on. They'd know him better than I would.
    What Mitchell Miller did: Physically and verbally abuse a disabled black kid by hitting him and calling him the N word. Then he doubled down by forcing this kid eat something he rubbed in a urinal. THIS IS WRONG


    What Coyotes did: On August 27th, the Coyotes came out with this statement, “The Arizona Coyote’s fully support the NHL’s players and the Hockey Diversity Alliance in our fight for racial equality and social justice. We are committed to being part of the solution to drive positive change..... We condemn racism, bigotry, violence, and prejudice and embrace our responsibility to all communities of color to not stay silent.” THIS IS GOOD


    I think the answer is pretty obvious when it comes down to the stance the Arizona Coyotes should take on this bum.

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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by havanablast21 View Post
    What about the victim, Isaiah Meyer-Crothers?
    Asked and answered.

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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    I know AW is busy trying to get the Obama speech thread locked, but I'm seriously interested in what he has to say about the victim? Or has this thread become to "difficult" for you to talk as confidently on?

    What bout Isaiah Meyer-Crothers? Take a minute out of your busy day shooting down non trump supporters to let us know how you really feel about the vicitim Isaiah Meyer-Crothers. Are you suggesting you're a better person because YOU are more resilient than what you feel Isaiah Meyer-Crothers should be based on both of your experiences as a kid?

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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by zambronies View Post
    What Mitchell Miller did: THIS IS WRONG
    Thanks for clearing that up!
    I mean, it was previously so up-in-the-air.

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    Default Re: Coyotes won't renounce draft pick who bullied Black, disabled teen

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Asked and answered.
    Asked yes, but we're still waiting on an answer. OR... maybe that's answer enough. in which cause I am appalled at your behavior here.

    You create a thread to ultimately cry foul on those who feel Mitchell Miller should not be held accountable for his actions and ultimately, Isaiah Meyer-Crothers needs to be more resilient like you.

    THAT is your message? cause that's all I can pull out of this thread.

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