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Thread: Thoughts on this trade?

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by vandalay View Post
    That makes quantity deals far more palatable. If you are good at drafting prospects (or good at getting that help on these forums) then this is the type of deal that could pay off big time. I love that you are looking good at Goalie. Now you need to draft loads of high upside forwards.
    I bought the guide again so hopefully it helps me with my drafting. Thanks for the input!
    Points only keeper. 12 Teams. No pos requirements. 18 skaters / 3 goalies (2 count for points.) G/A = 1 point each (includes goalies) Goalies = 1.5 for W / 4.5 for SO. Minors - 4 year protection. Prospects added during their draft year only. Undrafted = waivers.
    Skaters: Tolvanen,Jeannot,Drysdale,Benson,Sprong,Fantilli,H .Lindholm,T. Raddysh,K. Miller,Edvinsson,Roslovic,Sharangovich,McBain,Benn ett,Crouse, Luostarinen,Dube,Phillips
    Goalies: Gustavsson,Schmid,Vejmekla
    Minors: F.Pinelli,Beckman,Cossa,Nikkanen,Tieksola,Pashin,M cMichael,Konovalov,Svechkov,K.Johnson,Moore,Crista ll,Heidt,Ziemmer,Perron,Nadeau,Gulyayev,Wahlberg, Suniev,Tomasino,Khusnutdinov

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    That wasn't a good deal with D to dress. Without positional requirements, sorry but that's a pretty bad deal.

    You can win it by being good/lucky long term but that's still a pick that you could have turned for top prospects closer to the NHL (and better then Fox who is a D and not a 60 pts upside D in my opinion... and still 60 pts upside is not good for a 3rd overall pick).

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike's Lemons View Post
    I bought the guide again so hopefully it helps me with my drafting. Thanks for the input!
    The guide is just a start. It’s mostly just helpful as a baseline and for helping you predict who your other GMs might be in on and who might be more under the radar. If you want to excel at the draft you need to do much more.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by vandalay View Post
    That makes quantity deals far more palatable. If you are good at drafting prospects (or good at getting that help on these forums) then this is the type of deal that could pay off big time. I love that you are looking good at Goalie. Now you need to draft loads of high upside forwards.
    No offense, but he's looking good at goalie because people on this board told him (years ago) to drop guys like Husso and pick up Shestyorkin and Sorokin.

    If he listed to the board when it came to (not trading) draft picks, his team now would have Kakko, Turcotte (or Caufield), probably Matthews (or Laine) and McDavid (or Eichel).

    The quantity for quality is being turned into barre-boulet, athanasious, dugan, etc.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike's Lemons View Post
    Also, I REALLY need to consider all those points you made in any future trade offers. Never thought to look at players drafted high in previous years and compare them to others drafted after.

    I'll add that to my notes.
    I'll suggest one more point to add to your notes. Be extremely cautious when formulating counter offers. Perhaps even consider never countering (and just saying "no thank you").

    Because this is what seems to happen:

    Someone offers you three buckets of their crap for one bar of gold for you. And you look at the three buckets of crap and say "I don't need that" and "It doesn't seem enough for my bar of gold."

    But instead of ending there, you counter by asking for 20 buckets of crap. Which looks SO MUCH BETTER than the first offer. And it is. But it's still 20 BUCKETS OF CRAP!!!!

    Another observation is that, over the years, you have posted many trade proposals and gotten great advice from this board. But you hardly ever ask for trade advice before trading your high draft picks. It literally happens year after year after year.

    At least you kept 1OA this year. If you keep that pick, draft it, and don't trade him from spare parts, you'll be taking second step forward with this team. (Your first step was your goalies. DO NOT TRADE your goalies.)

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    No offense, but he's looking good at goalie because people on this board told him (years ago) to drop guys like Husso and pick up Shestyorkin and Sorokin.

    If he listed to the board when it came to (not trading) draft picks, his team now would have Kakko, Turcotte (or Caufield), probably Matthews (or Laine) and McDavid (or Eichel).

    The quantity for quality is being turned into barre-boulet, athanasious, dugan, etc.
    It's actually scary how good your memory is!

    Advice duely noted! Obviously I'm still a long ways away and have MUCH to learn. Really appreciate the honest feedback, gents.

    As far as research goes, what would you all suggest? For both drafting and trading.
    Points only keeper. 12 Teams. No pos requirements. 18 skaters / 3 goalies (2 count for points.) G/A = 1 point each (includes goalies) Goalies = 1.5 for W / 4.5 for SO. Minors - 4 year protection. Prospects added during their draft year only. Undrafted = waivers.
    Skaters: Tolvanen,Jeannot,Drysdale,Benson,Sprong,Fantilli,H .Lindholm,T. Raddysh,K. Miller,Edvinsson,Roslovic,Sharangovich,McBain,Benn ett,Crouse, Luostarinen,Dube,Phillips
    Goalies: Gustavsson,Schmid,Vejmekla
    Minors: F.Pinelli,Beckman,Cossa,Nikkanen,Tieksola,Pashin,M cMichael,Konovalov,Svechkov,K.Johnson,Moore,Crista ll,Heidt,Ziemmer,Perron,Nadeau,Gulyayev,Wahlberg, Suniev,Tomasino,Khusnutdinov

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike's Lemons View Post
    It's actually scary how good your memory is!

    Advice duely noted! Obviously I'm still a long ways away and have MUCH to learn. Really appreciate the honest feedback, gents.

    As far as research goes, what would you all suggest? For both drafting and trading.
    Honestly, the Dobber Season package is good enough for research. If you want to supplement it, get a subscription to the Athletic and read Pronman and Wheeler. [Tip: Go the Athletic's web site. Go through the sign up process - but cancel just before concluding. Then wait for a 50% off coupon to "magically" show up in your Facebook feed. This has worked for me two years in a row.] Other good stuff - the writers on DobberProspects, and - if you have refined your research - putting out your list, or tiers, on these boards for advice (which I've seen you do a lot, so kudo's to you there).

    For trading - no offense, but with your track record - you just should not be trading at all until you post here (especially trades involving future draft picks - those deals in particular are what have killed you).

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    I am of 2 minds on the deal:

    1. The fact that you aren't required to carry D means that they are not very important. In your format I don't want non-elite defenders. Fox is not currently elite, and doesn't have an unobstucted path to get there. He does however have a solid shot at getting there. Basically you need a guy that is 40+ consistent, 50+ when things go well. to be a solid roster player. However, Fox is an improvement to your roster, so that's good.

    2. It also means that every defenseman that you draft is a bad pick. So the first thing you do, is remove all D from your draft list. Every single one of them. You draft forwards & goalies only, barring a consensus elite offense D prospect falling into round 2 of your draft, and then I see if I can get him in round 3.

    3. Drafting goalies here makes much, much more sense than usual. You have 5 years of protection with no minor roster limit. Feel free to take some shots on goalies.

    4. You need lots of help, so I'm fine with giving up one lottery ticket for 4 lottery tickets which have a little lower chance of hitting big, plus Fox, I think is a good deal for your team. I would be willing to shop Fox, and see what value he has around the league.
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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    Honestly, the Dobber Season package is good enough for research. If you want to supplement it, get a subscription to the Athletic and read Pronman and Wheeler. [Tip: Go the Athletic's web site. Go through the sign up process - but cancel just before concluding. Then wait for a 50% off coupon to "magically" show up in your Facebook feed. This has worked for me two years in a row.] Other good stuff - the writers on DobberProspects, and - if you have refined your research - putting out your list, or tiers, on these boards for advice (which I've seen you do a lot, so kudo's to you there).

    For trading - no offense, but with your track record - you just should not be trading at all until you post here (especially trades involving future draft picks - those deals in particular are what have killed you).
    I strongly disagree that the Dobber package is enough. It’s fun to read and all but in my opinion the quality of the writers in the prospect report varies wildly, just like the content on DobberProspects. Reading only Dobber stuff won’t give him enough of an edge assuming his competitors are also doing that, at minimum.

    Mike’s Lemons, if you want some help with looking at the waivers list for potential pickups/drops and/or help with drafting I’m willing to help. Just PM me.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    So judging by my current roster, minors and picks in this years draft, what sort of deals would you guys formulate to perhaps acquire better assets? Like, what would be a package you'd offer if you took my team over?
    Points only keeper. 12 Teams. No pos requirements. 18 skaters / 3 goalies (2 count for points.) G/A = 1 point each (includes goalies) Goalies = 1.5 for W / 4.5 for SO. Minors - 4 year protection. Prospects added during their draft year only. Undrafted = waivers.
    Skaters: Tolvanen,Jeannot,Drysdale,Benson,Sprong,Fantilli,H .Lindholm,T. Raddysh,K. Miller,Edvinsson,Roslovic,Sharangovich,McBain,Benn ett,Crouse, Luostarinen,Dube,Phillips
    Goalies: Gustavsson,Schmid,Vejmekla
    Minors: F.Pinelli,Beckman,Cossa,Nikkanen,Tieksola,Pashin,M cMichael,Konovalov,Svechkov,K.Johnson,Moore,Crista ll,Heidt,Ziemmer,Perron,Nadeau,Gulyayev,Wahlberg, Suniev,Tomasino,Khusnutdinov

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    12 teams x 18 skaters = 216 players that counts. it's points only. Dobber has a top 300 list for points only stakers.

    Alex Barre-Boulet (245 - no value); Texier (298 - no value); Mangiapane (174 - marginal value); Bemstrom (297); Suter (209); Zacha (201); Kaprizov (103); yandle (153); Batherson (285); donato (241); fabbri (251); terry (256); anhanasiou (177); tuch (176); dugan (not ranked); white (259). Outside your goalies, you have no blue chippers.

    If I'm being honest, there is NO quick fix for this team. Your only option is a long, multi-year rebuild in which you stop trading your 1st round picks.

    I think the only players you have that other teams will want are Kaprizov, Shestyorkin and Sorokin. That's pretty much it.

    I wouldn't trade your goalies.

    I'd also note that there is no concern with your drafting abilities (both amateur and waiver draft). Your team is where it is exclusively due to really bad trades. So trying to fix this with trades is...in my opinion....not advisable.

    I know you probably don't want to hear that you need 5 years or more to fix this mess.

    But if you started 5 years ago, your team would have: McDavid, Matthews, Dahlin (or Svech), Kakko & Caufield and maybe a bust year in 2017. Trading those 5 players today would probably net you a respectable team. And that's not counting the potential of your drafting skills in later rounds and your waiver draft.

    In my mind, your team is burning to the ground and you are trying to fix the mess with gasoline.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    12 teams x 18 skaters = 216 players that counts. it's points only. Dobber has a top 300 list for points only stakers.

    Alex Barre-Boulet (245 - no value); Texier (298 - no value); Mangiapane (174 - marginal value); Bemstrom (297); Suter (209); Zacha (201); Kaprizov (103); yandle (153); Batherson (285); donato (241); fabbri (251); terry (256); anhanasiou (177); tuch (176); dugan (not ranked); white (259). Outside your goalies, you have no blue chippers.

    If I'm being honest, there is NO quick fix for this team. Your only option is a long, multi-year rebuild in which you stop trading your 1st round picks.

    I think the only players you have that other teams will want are Kaprizov, Shestyorkin and Sorokin. That's pretty much it.

    I wouldn't trade your goalies.

    I'd also note that there is no concern with your drafting abilities (both amateur and waiver draft). Your team is where it is exclusively due to really bad trades. So trying to fix this with trades is...in my opinion....not advisable.

    I know you probably don't want to hear that you need 5 years or more to fix this mess.

    But if you started 5 years ago, your team would have: McDavid, Matthews, Dahlin (or Svech), Kakko & Caufield and maybe a bust year in 2017. Trading those 5 players today would probably net you a respectable team. And that's not counting the potential of your drafting skills in later rounds and your waiver draft.

    In my mind, your team is burning to the ground and you are trying to fix the mess with gasoline.
    I always appreciate honest criticism from everyone here, regardless of if I want to hear it or not haha. Basically my plan going forward is just refer here always. I gave up drinking so giving up trades should be easy haha! As always, thanks so much for the advice.
    Points only keeper. 12 Teams. No pos requirements. 18 skaters / 3 goalies (2 count for points.) G/A = 1 point each (includes goalies) Goalies = 1.5 for W / 4.5 for SO. Minors - 4 year protection. Prospects added during their draft year only. Undrafted = waivers.
    Skaters: Tolvanen,Jeannot,Drysdale,Benson,Sprong,Fantilli,H .Lindholm,T. Raddysh,K. Miller,Edvinsson,Roslovic,Sharangovich,McBain,Benn ett,Crouse, Luostarinen,Dube,Phillips
    Goalies: Gustavsson,Schmid,Vejmekla
    Minors: F.Pinelli,Beckman,Cossa,Nikkanen,Tieksola,Pashin,M cMichael,Konovalov,Svechkov,K.Johnson,Moore,Crista ll,Heidt,Ziemmer,Perron,Nadeau,Gulyayev,Wahlberg, Suniev,Tomasino,Khusnutdinov

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Totally agree that this is a long road, a true rebuild. But Dobber’s top 300 is almost useless for someone in a true rebuild that doesn’t (shouldn’t) care about the short term. You should absolutely be keeping a bunch of those prospects and see where the chips fall and/or cash in on them at the right time. With Suter and Yandle, if you can move them for picks then do that. If you can’t even get picks for them you should drop them if you have enough draft picks to replace them with a prospect. If you have more picks yet you might want to consider trading or dropping a few other guys for prospects as well.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike's Lemons View Post
    I always appreciate honest criticism from everyone here, regardless of if I want to hear it or not haha. Basically my plan going forward is just refer here always. I gave up drinking so giving up trades should be easy haha! As always, thanks so much for the advice.
    Any time. And please don't overlook the part re: your drafting. You have made some excellent picks in your drafts, including your wavier draft. (I believe your two Russian goalies, and Kaprizov were waiver picks).

    We will have more advice one you have a better pool to work with. (i.e. target players with that are out for the season for an injury, bounce back candidates, that sort of thing). But right now, you don't have enough trade chips, in my opinion, to turn this around yet.

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    Default Re: Thoughts on this trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by vandalay View Post
    Totally agree that this is a long road, a true rebuild. But Dobber’s top 300 is almost useless for someone in a true rebuild that doesn’t (shouldn’t) care about the short term. You should absolutely be keeping a bunch of those prospects and see where the chips fall and/or cash in on them at the right time. With Suter and Yandle, if you can move them for picks then do that. If you can’t even get picks for them you should drop them if you have enough draft picks to replace them with a prospect. If you have more picks yet you might want to consider trading or dropping a few other guys for prospects as well.
    I didn't bother with Suter or Yandle because I assume they have no value in this format. There are no positional requirements, best 18 (F or D). If you can get a draft pick for either, then sure, do it. I just doubt anything is on the table. I'd be more curious what the trade value is for Fox. I'd much rather have prospect forwards. And I really don't think his value will increase over time, just the opposite.

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