Poll: Who Will Win the 2020 Hart Trophy?

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Thread: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    Great, Everyone has to decide for themselves what they like to spend their money on. I am really, really surprised that people still think you need to pay for quality writing and data these days, but then again there are lots of people still paying for cable television, so whatever.

    But it becomes even more absurd when the line "I don't have any interest in progressing my knowledge of the game and getting smarter, I prefer to live in the past" is tossed out I just have to laugh. Like who is living in the past when they are paying good money for internet content they can get from a variety of other sources.

    Anyways, if people are happy with this guy's stuff then all the power to them. I like stats and data a lot, but this is a situation of a guy who seems to have gotten himself completely lost in the weeds in an effort to make himself look smart. God I am guilty of that sometimes too, so I feel for him. But based on a number of his "picks" there is no way I would ever pay money to listen to much of what he has to say.
    I still pay for cable too.
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I still pay for cable too.
    As long as you're not claiming that others are living in the past by using Netflix, we are good

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    As long as you're not claiming that others are living in the past by using Netflix, we are good
    LOL! I guess we're good.
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink

    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Imagine thinking The Athletic = cable lol.

    Just imagine.

    The "free content" model is the one that is dying lmao.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    By the way, Draisaitl won the Hart this year.
    10 Team, Points Only, Cash League

    25 Man Roster (no position), top 20 point getters count at end of month
    Keep 20/25 at seasons end, Cut 5 to FA for redrafting
    Goalie points W=2pt L=-1pt SHO=2pt

    Stamkos, Tavares, Eichel, Mercer, JRobertson, RThomas, Kucherov, Nugent-Hopkins, Tuch, KConnor, Necas, Point, Konecny, SJarvis, Cozenz, Morrissey, Bouchard, Josi, Novak, Tolvanen, Peterka, Brink

    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


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  6. #36
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    By the way, Draisaitl won the Hart this year.
    He did! Very true statements. Couldn't possibly imagine being upset about one writer's very well reasoned and well thought out ballot ever, but especially couldn't imagine being upset about it when it didn't even impact the final results.

    I just wish all writers would use this level of consideration in their ballots, rather than just voting for the Art Ross winner. We already have a trophy for most points, and one for most goals.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    I've subscribed to the Athletic for a couple years now and I enjoy the articles. Just because I don't agree with one writers opinion wouldnt change the experience for me. It's just one guys opinion.
    It’s like this for me too. They have plenty of good content and of course some that I think is bunk but whatever, it’s not breaking the bank.

    I personally don’t mind Doms stuff (though it can be quite dull whatever) He’s been working on a model that try’s to quantify the value of everything a player does out there. Not easy and non without its flaws but it does allow him to remove personal bias from his voting. I look at a bunch of the voting results and there’re guys with a single 4th or 5th place vote and think, Why did he get any votes at all? It’s because the local writer threw “his guy” a bone, plenty of writers have admitted it for years but no one really cares because it doesn’t sway the overall consensus.

    He’s certainly not saying Drais, Carlson, and Couts are crap because they’re off his ballot, they all just missed the cut and it ultimately didn't sway the results either. It’s not flawless but I personally prefer that unbiased attempt to vote than the way so many awards seem to be handed out at times. Most points? MVP. Selke? Bergerons to lose unless someone was CLEARLY better. Norris? On occasion give it as a lifetime achievement award to players who’ve never been the best in a given season but have been good for a long time.

    I would’ve had Drais behind Mac and Panarin in that order but he did have a great season regardless so congrats on the award!
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  8. #38
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    It's funny that so many people argue about who should have won this or what stats are "more valuable" when we can't even really unpack/define the wording for the trophy:

    "The Hart Memorial Trophy is an annual award given to the player judged to be the most valuable to his team."

    "...the most valuable to his team." As far back as I can remember (and that's a very long time), there was always the discussion about this point. Most valuable (or often best player) in the league or most valuable to his TEAM. There also was (is?) an unwritten rule about players on non-playoff teams - no matter how good your season was, if it wasn't good enough to get your team to the playoffs, then they wouldn't receive any/many votes.

    This year, I would have voted for voted for MacKinnon. The next highest scorer on the Avs this year was 43 points behind Big Mac. The next closest was Eichel, who was a full 28 points ahead of the next best point getter on his team. I realize that points shouldn't be the only criteria, which is why I wouldn't have had Draisaitl as my top guy. Winning the Art Ross by 13 points is something to consider though. Who had the best season? I can live with Draisaitl as the choice, especially when Taylor Hall won the Hart back in 2017/18 after finishing 6th in league scoring (and 41 points ahead of his next team mate). There are some parallels for me with MacKinnon's season this year. Like I said, I would have voted for MacKinnon.
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  9. #39
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    re: "Player judged to be the most valuable to his team"...
    I think that the league keeps that antiquated phrasing... but I think everybody (should, at least) consider the Hart to be the NHL's "Best player in the league, this year".

    I mean... if we had a team of 10-year olds... and we put Linus Omark or Nail Yakupov or Patrick Stefan on that team... he would be the NHL Hart winner every year... by definition... right?
    I mean... really the NHL should re-word this trophy.
    And obviously every pro sports league should (!!!) have a best player trophy...
    And that trophy most fittingly is... the "Hart".

    Yes? Oui?





  10. #40
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Sure Peng, I just still would have a hard time buying the argument that Draisaitl we the best player in the league this year, unless we're going to start saying defence strictly does not matter in hockey.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Imagine thinking The Athletic = cable lol.

    Just imagine.

    The "free content" model is the one that is dying lmao.
    A fool and his money are soon parted!

    That one was for PenguinHunter.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeymanG23 View Post
    It’s like this for me too. They have plenty of good content and of course some that I think is bunk but whatever, it’s not breaking the bank.

    I personally don’t mind Doms stuff (though it can be quite dull whatever) He’s been working on a model that try’s to quantify the value of everything a player does out there. Not easy and non without its flaws but it does allow him to remove personal bias from his voting. I look at a bunch of the voting results and there’re guys with a single 4th or 5th place vote and think, Why did he get any votes at all? It’s because the local writer threw “his guy” a bone, plenty of writers have admitted it for years but no one really cares because it doesn’t sway the overall consensus.

    He’s certainly not saying Drais, Carlson, and Couts are crap because they’re off his ballot, they all just missed the cut and it ultimately didn't sway the results either. It’s not flawless but I personally prefer that unbiased attempt to vote than the way so many awards seem to be handed out at times. Most points? MVP. Selke? Bergerons to lose unless someone was CLEARLY better. Norris? On occasion give it as a lifetime achievement award to players who’ve never been the best in a given season but have been good for a long time.

    I would’ve had Drais behind Mac and Panarin in that order but he did have a great season regardless so congrats on the award!
    His work is full of bias just like everyone else. It's just that his bias is more "mathy" and so looks like it isn't. But that's a deception. However, I have no problem with people giving out their perspectives on why they think players are good, bad, or otherwise. Expecting me to pay for it, when I can get content like that from internet forums, seems silly to me, but honestly, it's all personal preference. Ultimately there are so many things that we can use our money for, and if someone wants to spend it on something like this, then all the power to them. It's not my choice, but it's a free world.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by doulos View Post
    His work is full of bias just like everyone else. It's just that his bias is more "mathy" and so looks like it isn't. But that's a deception. However, I have no problem with people giving out their perspectives on why they think players are good, bad, or otherwise. Expecting me to pay for it, when I can get content like that from internet forums, seems silly to me, but honestly, it's all personal preference. Ultimately there are so many things that we can use our money for, and if someone wants to spend it on something like this, then all the power to them. It's not my choice, but it's a free world.
    This is a little off-topic but if you think you can get the same information from internet forums as you can get from reputable sources such as The Athletic, you clearly have never subscribed or read much on The Athletic. I have sent you a link for 30 free days of The Athletic to see what there really is for offer on that website. Check your inbox.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by rataylor22 View Post
    Sure Peng, I just still would have a hard time buying the argument that Draisaitl we the best player in the league this year, unless we're going to start saying defence strictly does not matter in hockey.

    Defense matters, for sure.
    Winning games trumps all... though.
    And I'd be super curious to know where Edmonton finishes without Draisaitl's year.
    I think they miss playoffs, they certainly miss top 4 qualification.

    I absolutely love MacKinnon (& his season)... FWIW.
    I would have absolutely ZERO issues if MacKinnon wins this award.
    (I'm assuming the vote was razor tight, I haven't checked. Checking, yes - very close. 1309 Draisaitl, 1162 MacKinnon (89%), 889 Panarin... 369 Pastrnak).

    (Panarin, meh... great player... but he's not in the "Hart" conversation, IMO, on the wing as he does.)

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    Default Re: Hart Trophy Nominees: Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Panarin

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    This is a little off-topic but if you think you can get the same information from internet forums as you can get from reputable sources such as The Athletic, you clearly have never subscribed or read much on The Athletic. I have sent you a link for 30 free days of The Athletic to see what there really is for offer on that website. Check your inbox.
    Thanks!

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