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Thread: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

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    Default Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    https://www.tsn.ca/alexis-lafreniere...9aM2ZJKkpfScI4

    FYI, here's the top five:

    1. Alexis Lafreniere

    2. Tim Stuetzle

    3. Quinton Byfield

    4. Jamie Drysdale

    5. Cole Perfetti
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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Decisions decisions!
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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    It's a great time to have a top 7 pick in fantasy leagues.
    I've seen the same top 7 in almost every prospect gurus list: Laf,Q,Stutzle,Perfetti,Rossi,Raymond + Drysdale.
    BobbyMac's top 11 matches one of recent faves during paywall work for ESPN+ (ChrisPeters).

    Sanderson and Quinn have really rocketed up the lists this calendar year.
    Not sure how Sanderson (D) stock plays into fantasy hockey... or if he'll be more Erik Johnson or Alex Pietrangelo...

    Perfetti seems to be getting bonafide top5 love from everybody as Raymond & Holtz fall a bit.

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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post

    Perfetti seems to be getting bonafide top5 love from everybody as Raymond & Holtz fall a bit.
    It's probably a bit of an NA bias considering there hasn't been hockey played in a while, and the Europeans just had less exposure.
    I agree though that the top few seem to be set. I have a top 7 ranked thus far, and after that it's a bit of a crapshoot.
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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimo Brother View Post
    It's probably a bit of an NA bias considering there hasn't been hockey played in a while, and the Europeans just had less exposure.
    I agree though that the top few seem to be set. I have a top 7 ranked thus far, and after that it's a bit of a crapshoot.
    Keep in mind that MacKenzie's rankings are an accumulative ranking from actual NHL scouts so I dont think it has anything to do with less exposure. All teams have extensive European scouting systems so they are all getting seen, especially those in the top of the generic rankings.
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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Bob's list is always a strong barometer of what will happen in the NHL draft. I've always wondered what would happen if scouting wasn't so incestuous, would we see less consensus? I do think that hockey allows GMs and front-offices a little more leeway to make out-of-the-box choices than the NBA or NFL, where players are high-profile stars before arriving as professionals so ownership will often weigh in with more authority on selections. Still, consensus and mock drafts still hold a lot of sway over a lot of teams. I am excited for Friday's lottery.
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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Axeman33 View Post
    Keep in mind that MacKenzie's rankings are an accumulative ranking from actual NHL scouts so I dont think it has anything to do with less exposure. All teams have extensive European scouting systems so they are all getting seen, especially those in the top of the generic rankings.
    Also good to keep in mind that Bob polls ten scouts who are located in North America and therefore don't get many viewings of the European prospects.

    Teams haven't made up their final draft boards yet, so it's not like those scouts are sharing the final draft boards of their team.

    We've often seen European prospects get drafted higher than where Bob had them (see Seider and Broberg for example).

    EDIT: And it's also good to notice that two of those ten scouts were probably just trolling people because they put Byfield at 6 and Sanderson at 3. I'm pretty sure no one else in the world has ranked them like that, and those two just "happened" to have the same exact wonky ranking.

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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    We've often seen European prospects get drafted higher than where Bob had them (see Seider and Broberg for example).
    Maybe.
    There's two schools of thought here.
    One... is with regard to those guys being Europeans - and hard for some to value.
    Another... is that those guys are defensemen. Other than Byram last year, the other 9/10 top consensus 2019 prospects were... forwards, IIRC.

    General hockey watchers have so much emphasis on viewing scoring... that they don't really know how to weight a good defenseman.
    American football had this issue for years, the glory positions of QB, RB, WR were getting drafted too early. The "production" positions.
    But then GMs realized that less-sexy positions like offensive & defensive line were critical toward team success.

    So... that's a trend I see with a lot of "prospect rankers"... they simply love (& are better at) ranking forwards.
    People who love to watch hockey are SO good at talking about offensive skills and not inherently good at recognizing defense.
    Many non-scouts didn't grow up playing any defense (and a LOT of hockey people did not)... then they don't know how to upweight D to their proper value.

    The scouts that CAN do that... I think they are highly-valued and with-NHL-teams.
    I do believe Sanderson will go high.
    If the scouts that loved him so much didn't get tapped... we'd think of Sanderson as a 12-16 guy, he'd go 5-10 and... we'd all feel like he Seider-ed his way up the ladder.
    All of Seider, Broberg, Soderstrom were "up-drafted" last year to us common hockey fans.
    But the Flyers also did that with the NA York, taking him in front of Caufield & Newhook & Krebs.
    So it can be reasoned, as a generality, that the elite hockey minds with NHL teams ranked D higher up with F than most public prospect ranks had.

    Anyways - not saying the "Euro-undervalue" is incorrect... just saying the "D-undervalue" is also askew.
    Seider, Broberg can't be definitely reasoned into just one of those arguments... it's some amount of both, IMO.
    My 2 cents.

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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko-Pouko View Post
    Also good to keep in mind that Bob polls ten scouts who are located in North America and therefore don't get many viewings of the European prospects.

    Teams haven't made up their final draft boards yet, so it's not like those scouts are sharing the final draft boards of their team.

    We've often seen European prospects get drafted higher than where Bob had them (see Seider and Broberg for example).

    EDIT: And it's also good to notice that two of those ten scouts were probably just trolling people because they put Byfield at 6 and Sanderson at 3. I'm pretty sure no one else in the world has ranked them like that, and those two just "happened" to have the same exact wonky ranking.
    Good points.

    As far as Byfield at 6 and Sanderson at 3, who really knows who has what. I am sure this time last year we were probably thinking there's no way Seider goes as high as he does either. Different strokes for different folks.
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    G- Vasilevskiy, Sorokin, Oettinger


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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Pengwin7 View Post
    Maybe.
    There's two schools of thought here.
    One... is with regard to those guys being Europeans - and hard for some to value.
    Another... is that those guys are defensemen. Other than Byram last year, the other 9/10 top consensus 2019 prospects were... forwards, IIRC.

    General hockey watchers have so much emphasis on viewing scoring... that they don't really know how to weight a good defenseman.
    American football had this issue for years, the glory positions of QB, RB, WR were getting drafted too early. The "production" positions.
    But then GMs realized that less-sexy positions like offensive & defensive line were critical toward team success.

    So... that's a trend I see with a lot of "prospect rankers"... they simply love (& are better at) ranking forwards.
    People who love to watch hockey are SO good at talking about offensive skills and not inherently good at recognizing defense.
    Many non-scouts didn't grow up playing any defense (and a LOT of hockey people did not)... then they don't know how to upweight D to their proper value.

    The scouts that CAN do that... I think they are highly-valued and with-NHL-teams.
    I do believe Sanderson will go high.
    If the scouts that loved him so much didn't get tapped... we'd think of Sanderson as a 12-16 guy, he'd go 5-10 and... we'd all feel like he Seider-ed his way up the ladder.
    All of Seider, Broberg, Soderstrom were "up-drafted" last year to us common hockey fans.
    But the Flyers also did that with the NA York, taking him in front of Caufield & Newhook & Krebs.
    So it can be reasoned, as a generality, that the elite hockey minds with NHL teams ranked D higher up with F than most public prospect ranks had.

    Anyways - not saying the "Euro-undervalue" is incorrect... just saying the "D-undervalue" is also askew.
    Seider, Broberg can't be definitely reasoned into just one of those arguments... it's some amount of both, IMO.
    My 2 cents.
    I wasn't comparing online rankings to draft results, I was comparing Bob's rankings (which are done by polling actual NHL scouts) to draft results. My argument had nothing to do with online scouts like myself.

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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Comparing apples to oranges.. We all have our own lists, too bad Bobby Mack doesn't have his own!! I lean more to Craig Button's list as he makes his own rankings!!

    I think we are going to see Lafreniere, Byfield and Stutzle go 1-2-3, as most think. But after that who knows?? But again, that is just my own opinion. Yzerman at #4 is intriguing.. Does he take Drysdale? Perfetti? Rossi? I would think Ottawa at 5 wants Rossi from the Ottawa 67's..

    All in all, c'mon Bob, make your own list. Polling random scouts is pointless!! HaHa!!
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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
    Comparing apples to oranges.. We all have our own lists, too bad Bobby Mack doesn't have his own!! I lean more to Craig Button's list as he makes his own rankings!!

    I think we are going to see Lafreniere, Byfield and Stutzle go 1-2-3, as most think. But after that who knows?? But again, that is just my own opinion. Yzerman at #4 is intriguing.. Does he take Drysdale? Perfetti? Rossi? I would think Ottawa at 5 wants Rossi from the Ottawa 67's..

    All in all, c'mon Bob, make your own list. Polling random scouts is pointless!! HaHa!!
    Personally, I will be surprised if Ottawa takes Rossi at 5.

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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    I think the Sens grab Stutzle at 3 and then take one of Raymond or Drysdale at 5. With his connections to Michigan, Perfetti to the Wings or *shocker* they draft Sanderson. The Habs love the small guys and they draft Rossi.

    The King's twitter account is pretty stoked to grab Quinton at 2.
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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Call of Doughty View Post
    I think the Sens grab Stutzle at 3 and then take one of Raymond or Drysdale at 5. With his connections to Michigan, Perfetti to the Wings or *shocker* they draft Sanderson. The Habs love the small guys and they draft Rossi.

    The King's twitter account is pretty stoked to grab Quinton at 2.
    I see no reference to Byfield on the Kings twitter account. (And I can't recall a team ever tipping their hand on a pick, even when that pick is obvious...)

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    Default Re: Bob MacKenzie's final draft rankings for 2020

    That's the one I was referring to. It was the audience's opinions that I was referring to and not a direct quote from the team. My apologies.

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