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Thread: Trading for Burns and Kane

  1. #1
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    Default Trading for Burns and Kane

    I'm sure we are all bored by now. Have a read and give me some advice please.

    So I am in year two of a dynasty league (in sig) that I am the commissioner of. When we did the initial draft for the most part I drafted young. I liked the idea of letting my players develop for a bit while I would be able to draft upper tier prospects for a few years, hopefully setting myself up for a long run at the top of the league once players started to mature. I didn't think that I would be making the playoffs until year three or four. The first year went according to plan, I was competitive but didn't make the playoffs. This year thanks to the emergence of a few players I am ahead of schedule and currently sitting in the semifinals. I am now a playoff team and comparing my roster to the rest of the league I should be in the playoffs for the foreseeable future. There is a bit of a gap between my team and the two top teams. Picking up Burns and Kane would go a long ways towards closing that. The guy that owns them hasn't actually made a trade since we started the league, but I inquired about them and he agrees that his team needs a rebuild and needs to trade them while they still have value. We agreed to discuss a trade after we have the next prospect draft.

    In the little discussion we had I told him I didn't want to trade any player that has now arrived as a fantasy asset and is contributing in a large way. So players like Fiala and Bjorkstrand would be out. But all of my draft picks, prospects and young players with upside like Keller, Labanc and Thomas would be available. We are able to trade picks three years into the future and each draft has 6 rounds. Prospects can also be switched from the minors to your main roster until they hit 101 games played. Older players in this league seem to go rather cheap while you basically have to sell your home if you want a young guy. This year Malkin went for just a first. Bergeron went for a first and Max Jones. Tukka Rask went for a first and Anton Khudobin. Marchand went for Seth Jones and Gaudreau. I would like to keep Turcotte as I am going to put him in an offer for Crosby, and Lavoie, just in case he sticks with McDavid or Draisaitl. But they can be included if that is what it takes. The other team owner is also my uncle so I want to give a fair offer. So my question is what do you think I should offer for them?

    12 Team, Weekly H2H, Daily Lineup, Dynasty

    25 man roster
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 6 D, 2 G, 8 Bench

    G 2, A 1, PPP/SHP 0.5, GWG 0.5, Shot 0.2, Hit 0.2, Blk 0.2, PIM 0.2
    W 2, SO 2, SV 0.2, GA -1

    C McDavid, JGP, Rakell
    LW Forsberg, Pacioretty, Fiala
    RW Palmieri, Mantha, Svechnikov
    D Dunn, Pulock, Chabot, Nurse, Provorov, Hronek
    G Markstrom, Shesterkin

    Labanc, Gustafsson, Bjorkstrand, R Thomas, Keller, S Johns
    Saros, Rittich

    Minors
    A Turcotte, Tolvanen, Farabee, J Robertson, R Lavoie, Batherson, Wahlstrom, Bemstrom
    Clague, Valimaki
    Demko, Prosvetov, J Johansson

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Seems strange to me that you want the two best players in the deal, and you won't be willing to part with Fiala, but you would part with Keller.

    Do you know wat the other guy wants/values?
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  3. #3
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    The Great One

    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimo Brother View Post
    Seems strange to me that you want the two best players in the deal, and you won't be willing to part with Fiala, but you would part with Keller.

    Do you know wat the other guy wants/values?
    I agree with this and if Im the other owner Im losing interest before talks even start. Youre framing it as "I wont give you any proven value and our league has historically misvalued draft picks to a pretty brutal degree so if you want guys Im waivering on (LeBlanc, Keller) or a commodity where you have the potential to really do damage on the return youre getting- Im your guy." For me thats a pretty easy "no thank you". Unless you leave an easy way to short change yourselg by dangling a guy with Uber-upside- like a Clayton keller.

    Heres the thing- if its just Burns- Im kind of ok with the premise. I dont think were counting him as a top 3 guy anymore- debatably a top 10? Were also comfortablke with a pretty serious and fast decline especially considering the personell issues in SJ. He feels more like a traditional "rental"- and Im fine with pure futures for a rental. If you are asking... did you really do all that word count in fluff and past deals and NOT include which effing Kane it is?? Lmao- jebus... In either case- Id be annoyed right off the bat youre asking for a legit asset and going way out of your way to say youre not offering one back. Burns? Sure- thats a rental and if Im an owner in a re-build Im dfeeling the pressure every day to move him? Kane? He should be laughing.

    That being said there are holes in even that premise. Keller has a lot of value still and if youre lumping him in with LaBanc- theres a good chance youre going to undersell him.

    Ill try to figure out which Kane it is and see if I missed league settings too...

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    Dobber Sports Jedi

    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    First two questions to ask
    1. what do you think his team needs?
    2. what does he think his team needs?

    Your goal - fill needs. Optimally, it costs you less for filling that need & he gets what he wants.
    Follow me on twitter: @doylelb4

  5. #5
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    The Great One

    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Question 3- Which Kane is it?

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    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting_Emu View Post
    Question 3- Which Kane is it?
    I hope it's this one:
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  7. #7
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    The Great One

    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Ohhh Scnapp!!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Quote Originally Posted by Eskimo Brother View Post
    Seems strange to me that you want the two best players in the deal, and you won't be willing to part with Fiala, but you would part with Keller.

    Do you know wat the other guy wants/values?
    Fiala has broken out while Keller hasn't. Does it happen next year or two-three years from now? If he reaches his potential on a team that isn't mine I can live with that. The other team has needs at every position.
    12 Team, Weekly H2H, Daily Lineup, Dynasty

    25 man roster
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 6 D, 2 G, 8 Bench

    G 2, A 1, PPP/SHP 0.5, GWG 0.5, Shot 0.2, Hit 0.2, Blk 0.2, PIM 0.2
    W 2, SO 2, SV 0.2, GA -1

    C McDavid, JGP, Rakell
    LW Forsberg, Pacioretty, Fiala
    RW Palmieri, Mantha, Svechnikov
    D Dunn, Pulock, Chabot, Nurse, Provorov, Hronek
    G Markstrom, Shesterkin

    Labanc, Gustafsson, Bjorkstrand, R Thomas, Keller, S Johns
    Saros, Rittich

    Minors
    A Turcotte, Tolvanen, Farabee, J Robertson, R Lavoie, Batherson, Wahlstrom, Bemstrom
    Clague, Valimaki
    Demko, Prosvetov, J Johansson

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Quote Originally Posted by Fighting_Emu View Post
    I agree with this and if Im the other owner Im losing interest before talks even start. Youre framing it as "I wont give you any proven value and our league has historically misvalued draft picks to a pretty brutal degree so if you want guys Im waivering on (LeBlanc, Keller) or a commodity where you have the potential to really do damage on the return youre getting- Im your guy." For me thats a pretty easy "no thank you". Unless you leave an easy way to short change yourselg by dangling a guy with Uber-upside- like a Clayton keller.

    Heres the thing- if its just Burns- Im kind of ok with the premise. I dont think were counting him as a top 3 guy anymore- debatably a top 10? Were also comfortablke with a pretty serious and fast decline especially considering the personell issues in SJ. He feels more like a traditional "rental"- and Im fine with pure futures for a rental. If you are asking... did you really do all that word count in fluff and past deals and NOT include which effing Kane it is?? Lmao- jebus... In either case- Id be annoyed right off the bat youre asking for a legit asset and going way out of your way to say youre not offering one back. Burns? Sure- thats a rental and if Im an owner in a re-build Im dfeeling the pressure every day to move him? Kane? He should be laughing.

    That being said there are holes in even that premise. Keller has a lot of value still and if youre lumping him in with LaBanc- theres a good chance youre going to undersell him.

    Ill try to figure out which Kane it is and see if I missed league settings too...
    It was 1am and I was tired. My apologies for forgetting to put the "P" in front of Kane. Unless my sig isn't showing up for you, yes you missed the league settings. The other owner is completely fine with getting young players with upside, picks and prospects back.
    Ok, so we both feel that Keller has Uber-upside. I don't think he and Labanc are equal value, I lumped them together just as an example of young guys that were on a lot of sleeper/breakout lists at the start of this season that didn't deliver this year but still can. Now surely if I offered Keller, every draft pick I have and all of my prospects we would agree that would be an over payment. So dial it back, what combination of picks, prospects and players would be a fair offer for Burns and "P" Kane?
    12 Team, Weekly H2H, Daily Lineup, Dynasty

    25 man roster
    3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 6 D, 2 G, 8 Bench

    G 2, A 1, PPP/SHP 0.5, GWG 0.5, Shot 0.2, Hit 0.2, Blk 0.2, PIM 0.2
    W 2, SO 2, SV 0.2, GA -1

    C McDavid, JGP, Rakell
    LW Forsberg, Pacioretty, Fiala
    RW Palmieri, Mantha, Svechnikov
    D Dunn, Pulock, Chabot, Nurse, Provorov, Hronek
    G Markstrom, Shesterkin

    Labanc, Gustafsson, Bjorkstrand, R Thomas, Keller, S Johns
    Saros, Rittich

    Minors
    A Turcotte, Tolvanen, Farabee, J Robertson, R Lavoie, Batherson, Wahlstrom, Bemstrom
    Clague, Valimaki
    Demko, Prosvetov, J Johansson

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    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Quote Originally Posted by lucafen4 View Post
    I hope it's this one:
    would love to see him on skates!
    14 Teams H2H Dynasty, 28 roster spots (8 bench), 15 minors under 100
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    LW: Ehlers, Landeskog, Meier, Debrusk, Foegele, Lee
    RW: Pastrnak, Marner, Palmieri, Terry, D. Brown, Bailey, Granlund
    D: Krug, Josi, Ekholm, Faulk, Muzzin, Karlsson, Cernak,
    G: Hellebuyck, Biship, M Jones

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    Dobber Sports Jedi

    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Quote Originally Posted by Belexus75 View Post
    would love to see him on skates!
    Chara
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    Quote Originally Posted by sumwunn View Post
    It was 1am and I was tired. My apologies for forgetting to put the "P" in front of Kane. Unless my sig isn't showing up for you, yes you missed the league settings. The other owner is completely fine with getting young players with upside, picks and prospects back.
    Ok, so we both feel that Keller has Uber-upside. I don't think he and Labanc are equal value, I lumped them together just as an example of young guys that were on a lot of sleeper/breakout lists at the start of this season that didn't deliver this year but still can. Now surely if I offered Keller, every draft pick I have and all of my prospects we would agree that would be an over payment. So dial it back, what combination of picks, prospects and players would be a fair offer for Burns and "P" Kane?
    you want P. Kane who will still produce at an elite level for say 3-4 years minimum AND Burns, who although fell off this year, still posted 45 points, 225 shots, 115 blocks, and 72 hits. With no plus minus, Burns did not hamper you in the slightest and was a well above average asset on the blue line. If I am the guy who owns those two and I was trading to you I want the likes of Fiala, Shesterkin, Hronek coming back to me if I am dealing for upside. Sorry but Keller, Labanc, and Thomas are not going to cut it for most owners, if you can get him to make that deal, wonderful. Your fellow owners should veto the deal honestly if the other guy isn't getting at least one household name back. If I had to do it for one player, one prospect, one pick and I would not in real life, I would want Fiala, Turcotte, and your first round pick at the very very least.
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    G: Shest,Kotchetkov
    IR: Zegras,Norris,Vilardi,Kempe

  13. #13
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    The Great One

    Default Re: Trading for Burns and Kane

    So first off- its my opinion and its a forum- I dont need to dial anything back- lol!

    Second it comes down to tone with some people- and that includes me- so im saying hypothetically if this owner has a similar style to me youve done yourself a bhuge disservice right out of the gate by grouping your assets into "effective ones" and "upside ones" and then stating you have no interest in trading effective ones. My whole point is that it would be an uphill conversation from there.

    Part the third- the trade- Im maybe the biggest keller hyper in these parts and your dreaming if you think you can net Kane for him outside of a cap league where there are serious cap implications on the Kane roster. If you do- good on you- you just won a trade in a dummy league and youll be bored in three years after three titles- lol! The fact that your ruling out "effective" pl;ayers essentially means youre trying to fleece a guy and power to you but Ive got no advice for you. Tbh I get annoyed when I see these offers- theyll only debase trade negotiations in your league long term. Evemntually the fleeced guy quits and the new guy has to pick up the pieces in a leagfue where you now think Keller and LaBanc is a solid value for Burns and Kane- lmfao!! If I sound bitter- I might be- my favorite new league is like this and its getting old.

    Part 4- have you considered a legitimate offer for two superstars? You know Kabnes better than the ppg youre supposing Bjorkstrabnd and Fiala might become right? Theres a lot to be said for making and executing fair offers that still help you win.

    Part 5- yes all the picks- if youre getting Kane and Burns- for Keller and his "uber but not quite bjorkstarnd or maybe bjorkstrand but it could be in theree years on a different team" upside- should not be the only talking point here. If he is- you should be adding a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd at a minimum. Or if you are in a dummy league you offer whatever bullshit gets the deal done and the rest of us tune out because playing games on "very easy mode" stopped being fun when we were 12...

    Is the dial alright on that one?


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