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Thread: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

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    rangerdanger's Avatar
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    Default Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    League and team in sig. 16 team h2h full dynasty.

    Our Commish just made a deal.

    He gets
    Nick Backstrom
    Phil Kessel
    2020 picks: Round 2.-09 and 3.09 as of now

    He gave
    Gabriel Landeskog
    2020 picks: Round 2.15 and 3.15

    So , in our league we only cancel a trade if there is thought to be collusion or some form of cheating. Since that isn't the case here, the trade will likely go through. The Commish I think, getting Backstrom etc... is winning HUGE in this deal as far as im concerned. Im kind of shocked because the owner hes trading with usually makes better deals than this. If we canceled trades for less than we do, this would get my vote.

    I should add, I kind of hate Landeskog and think hes terribly overrated. Especially after last season, hes due for a regression. The only reason he had such fantastic 2018-2019 season, IMO, is because he got to play on a line with MacKinnon and Rantanen. I can't see him repeating. He's all ready on a far worse pace for the 2019-20 season. There is no way he repeats. Not to mention, the less he plays on a top line with those 2, the less he will produce. So his long term value isn't even that great tied to specific linemates.

    I don't know if I am going to say anything in the league or not. Either way the trade will go through, unless one of them made a mistake, which is still a possibility. But how does our Commish get the best player as far as im concerned in Backstrom, a still decent Kessel AND higher 2020 draft picks than hes giving up....all for Landeskog? This deal kinda pisses me off thinking about it. The pick swaps make 0 sense in this deal.

    But just want to get some other opinion in case I am missing something.
    18 Team H2H Dynasty 9x4 cat. Roster 30 + 2 NA, 4 DL. 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,1G,11BN
    Scoring cats are G, A, +\-, PIM, PPP, SHP, FW, HIT, BLK
    W, GAA, SV%, SHO.
    C: Crosby, Horvat, , E. Lindholm (RW), Aho, W. Johnston (RW), Bjugstad,
    LW: Marchand, J. Benn, E. Kane, Fiala, Barbashev (C), Schwartz (C), Namestikov (C)
    RW: M. Tkachuk (LW), JT Miller (C), Batherson, Hyman (LW), Frederic (C), Palmieri
    D: J. Carlson, Josi, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Seider, Gudas, Ekman-Larsson,
    G: Vasilievkiy, Shesterkin, Husso
    NA: Mukhamadullin (D), I. Rosen (RW), D. .Levi (G)
    LTIR: Landeskog (LW), Dach (C)

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Some GM's really don't like players over 30, let alone players over 32. The GM that got Landeskog just got a player 5 years younger than the two he traded away. Maybe that was all the incentive they needed.
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    The Great One

    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Kessel is "still decent" and Landeskog is overrated? I smell bias.

    And League in sig has 18 teams, so we don't even know the categories. Landeskog will put up much better periphs, depending on the categories.

    It's hard to evaluate without more context, especially what the Landy's owners team looks like now....

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Without more information, I think I like the side getting Landeskog more. Perfectly reasonable trade.
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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    First: the picks are essentially a wash. Same year, same round - completely dependent on team finish.

    Second: your anti-Landeskog bias shows up huge here.

    Kessel's long term value is pretty much toast, as he's not finding much TOI with one of Crosby or Malkin, and his peripheral production isn't good. He's a throw in. He's either been cut and made it to the free agent pool, or got claimed off waivers just before hitting the wire in every every dynasty league I'm in this year. He's a throw-in.

    Backstrom is the actual player coming back, but they do different things, and Landeskog is much younger, as others have noted.

    If I was a commish and somebody told me this deal between two other owners was too unbalanced and needs to get vetoed, I thank them for their opinion, and tell them I disagree.
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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Quote Originally Posted by stevegamer View Post
    First: the picks are essentially a wash. Same year, same round - completely dependent on team finish.

    Second: your anti-Landeskog bias shows up huge here.

    Kessel's long term value is pretty much toast, as he's not finding much TOI with one of Crosby or Malkin, and his peripheral production isn't good. He's a throw in. He's either been cut and made it to the free agent pool, or got claimed off waivers just before hitting the wire in every every dynasty league I'm in this year. He's a throw-in.

    Backstrom is the actual player coming back, but they do different things, and Landeskog is much younger, as others have noted.

    If I was a commish and somebody told me this deal between two other owners was too unbalanced and needs to get vetoed, I thank them for their opinion, and tell them I disagree.
    I agree with this. Not being on a top line with Malkin or Crosby has diminished Kessel’s production which can easily be seen with his stats this year, leaving him with not much value. As others also noted above, being a dynasty league, Landeskog can be more valuable in many owners eyes because he is younger than Backstrom. In my opinion, I see no cause for a veto.
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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    You got to chill dude.. i only read the first two sentences to know its sour grapes. I always get annoyed at deals like that because I didn't offer it up first.

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    I think this is completely reasonable.

    McDavid/Necas/ Kucherov/Bjorkstrand/Rust/Nugent Hopkins/Cirelli/Zegras/- Letang/Morrissey/Dahlin - Swayman/Saros/Skinner

    Prospects include:
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    Dumais/Korchinski/Hutson

    Don't worry I'm not going to say anything more than I have to. If that.

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    yeah in dynasty setup this is fine.....Landy has wya more to give before he is done, Kessel does not and backstrom will slow down ....GM giving up Bacstrom gives up FW he is not replacing but he gains hits and lots of age...i think its good trade for both sides...
    14 Teams H2H Dynasty, 28 roster spots (8 bench), 15 minors under 100
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    C: Eichel, Kadri, Mcdavid, Sodeberg, Schenn
    LW: Ehlers, Landeskog, Meier, Debrusk, Foegele, Lee
    RW: Pastrnak, Marner, Palmieri, Terry, D. Brown, Bailey, Granlund
    D: Krug, Josi, Ekholm, Faulk, Muzzin, Karlsson, Cernak,
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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    Kessel is "still decent" and Landeskog is overrated? I smell bias.

    And League in sig has 18 teams, so we don't even know the categories. Landeskog will put up much better periphs, depending on the categories.

    It's hard to evaluate without more context, especially what the Landy's owners team looks like now....
    All that info is in the Sig if you look. And yes im bias against Landeskog abuse I think he’s terrible overvalued when looking at his history and current productions. He has 1 good year every 3 seasons or so.
    18 Team H2H Dynasty 9x4 cat. Roster 30 + 2 NA, 4 DL. 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,1G,11BN
    Scoring cats are G, A, +\-, PIM, PPP, SHP, FW, HIT, BLK
    W, GAA, SV%, SHO.
    C: Crosby, Horvat, , E. Lindholm (RW), Aho, W. Johnston (RW), Bjugstad,
    LW: Marchand, J. Benn, E. Kane, Fiala, Barbashev (C), Schwartz (C), Namestikov (C)
    RW: M. Tkachuk (LW), JT Miller (C), Batherson, Hyman (LW), Frederic (C), Palmieri
    D: J. Carlson, Josi, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Seider, Gudas, Ekman-Larsson,
    G: Vasilievkiy, Shesterkin, Husso
    NA: Mukhamadullin (D), I. Rosen (RW), D. .Levi (G)
    LTIR: Landeskog (LW), Dach (C)

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Trade is reasonable and no collusion at all. Age is usually a big factor into trades. Both Kessel and Backstrom, while solid players, are now entering into the downsides of their careers, whereas Landeskog is younger and should have more productive years ahead of him in comparison. No reason to fuss over this trade

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Quote Originally Posted by rangerdanger View Post
    All that info is in the Sig if you look. And yes im bias against Landeskog abuse I think he’s terrible overvalued when looking at his history and current productions. He has 1 good year every 3 seasons or so.
    Your post says, "16 team h2h full dynasty". Your signature says, "18 Team H2H Dynasty". That makes it hard to know whether or not you are actually talking about the team in your signature. (FWIW, it can be more clear starting your post with, "For league in signature." And in multicat, Landeskog has put up more than 1 out of 3 good years. You don't see it because you don't want to see it. You'd have a stronger argument for a points only league.

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Backstrom and Kessel are both on the wrong side of their prime. In fact I think that the equipment manager in Arizona had to bring in a defibulator earlier in the year to make sure that Kessel was still alive and that the desert air hadn't knocked him off somehow. I'm not sure I'd have traded Landeskog for them, but every GM likes and needs different things. To think that's too much to pay for him in a multi cat league is crazy talk to me.

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Quote Originally Posted by als_revenge View Post
    Your post says, "16 team h2h full dynasty". Your signature says, "18 Team H2H Dynasty". That makes it hard to know whether or not you are actually talking about the team in your signature. (FWIW, it can be more clear starting your post with, "For league in signature." And in multicat, Landeskog has put up more than 1 out of 3 good years. You don't see it because you don't want to see it. You'd have a stronger argument for a points only league.
    Since I specifically said league and team in Sig, I’d think it’s obvious that one of those is a mistype rather than it maybe not being the same league. Either way, the cats are clearly listed there. No matter.

    And not quite. Landeskog is outside the top 100 in our league scoring in most seasons. Backstrom outproduced him alone all but last two seasons and like 5 years ago. I get the age thing for sure. But I stick to my guns about Landeskog production. He’s inconsistant and obviously dependent on MacKinnon to put up top 50 type years. Yes, even in multicat. Yet Backstrom alone can put a team over the top in FW. Backstrom is still actuallyhaving a poor year relative to his norm.

    Thanks for the responses. I agree that with no collusion the trade shouldn’t be overturned. But it still seems like a bad deal to me. Kind of shocked Landeskog gets this much support. His last two seasons were terrific no doubt, but when you compare them with his career stats, the last two seasons are the outliers. You have to go all the way back to 2014 to find a season he scored over 60 points, 65 that year. Also was the only other year in his career I think that he cracked the top 100 in our league scoring. Aside from the last two seasons.

    Now this season, he seems to be reverting back to previous norms. 21 points in 33 games. Currently ranked 253rd in our league scoring. Even having a down year Backstrom is outproducing him by a fair margin. I could see the age thing making Kissel a fair add, but then also swapping for much worse 2nd and 3rd round picks is where I think it really sours.

    He’s a good multicat player no doubt. I just don’t think he’s as good as the last two seasons, and perhaps this trade would suggest.
    18 Team H2H Dynasty 9x4 cat. Roster 30 + 2 NA, 4 DL. 4C,4LW,4RW,6D,1G,11BN
    Scoring cats are G, A, +\-, PIM, PPP, SHP, FW, HIT, BLK
    W, GAA, SV%, SHO.
    C: Crosby, Horvat, , E. Lindholm (RW), Aho, W. Johnston (RW), Bjugstad,
    LW: Marchand, J. Benn, E. Kane, Fiala, Barbashev (C), Schwartz (C), Namestikov (C)
    RW: M. Tkachuk (LW), JT Miller (C), Batherson, Hyman (LW), Frederic (C), Palmieri
    D: J. Carlson, Josi, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Seider, Gudas, Ekman-Larsson,
    G: Vasilievkiy, Shesterkin, Husso
    NA: Mukhamadullin (D), I. Rosen (RW), D. .Levi (G)
    LTIR: Landeskog (LW), Dach (C)

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    Default Re: Bad dynasty deal? Landeskog overvalue

    Quote Originally Posted by rangerdanger View Post
    Since I specifically said league and team in Sig, I’d think it’s obvious that one of those is a mistype rather than it maybe not being the same league. Either way, the cats are clearly listed there. No matter.

    And not quite. Landeskog is outside the top 100 in our league scoring in most seasons. Backstrom outproduced him alone all but last two seasons and like 5 years ago. I get the age thing for sure. But I stick to my guns about Landeskog production. He’s inconsistant and obviously dependent on MacKinnon to put up top 50 type years. Yes, even in multicat. Yet Backstrom alone can put a team over the top in FW. Backstrom is still actuallyhaving a poor year relative to his norm.

    Thanks for the responses. I agree that with no collusion the trade shouldn’t be overturned. But it still seems like a bad deal to me. Kind of shocked Landeskog gets this much support. His last two seasons were terrific no doubt, but when you compare them with his career stats, the last two seasons are the outliers. You have to go all the way back to 2014 to find a season he scored over 60 points, 65 that year. Also was the only other year in his career I think that he cracked the top 100 in our league scoring. Aside from the last two seasons.

    Now this season, he seems to be reverting back to previous norms. 21 points in 33 games. Currently ranked 253rd in our league scoring. Even having a down year Backstrom is outproducing him by a fair margin. I could see the age thing making Kissel a fair add, but then also swapping for much worse 2nd and 3rd round picks is where I think it really sours.

    He’s a good multicat player no doubt. I just don’t think he’s as good as the last two seasons, and perhaps this trade would suggest.
    While you're not wrong to be concerned, there's a few numbers skewing your assessment. The biggest is how bad Colorado was during a lot of Landeskog's early/down years. You're absolutely right to suggest that he's dependant on his linemates, but the years you're referencing were also the years where most people (this forum included) were souring on Mackinnon.

    Long story short, I think Kessel is done, Backstrom isn't, and Landeskog has 80+ potential with solid peripherals. He's not going to do it this year obviously, but he's 27, has shown he can, and has the supporting cast to do so.
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