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Thread: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Except there are signs at the zoo instructing people not to behave this way. i.e. It's against the rules.
    Tkachuk didn't break any rules.
    Rules at the zoo, strange... like charging is a rule in the NHL?

    https://youtu.be/g11MBII7GLY

    Edit: replace charging with hits to the head, hitting in a vulnerable position, leaving your feet on a hit, or all of the above.
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by MZac View Post
    Rules at the zoo, strange... like charging is a rule in the NHL?

    https://youtu.be/g11MBII7GLY

    Edit: replace charging with hits to the head, hitting in a vulnerable position, leaving your feet on a hit, or all of the above.
    No call during the game.
    Follow up from the league after the game: "Legal hits."

    So the officials were wrong. And the league reviewed it afterwards and agreed with the non-calls. So the league is wrong too. And I'm wrong too. And whoever agrees with my position - also wrong.

    Maybe. Certainly possible.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    DOPS and the officiating (including the Toronto “war room”) in this league are an unprofessional arbitrary unpredictable clown show. They get it wrong faaaar more often than they get it right. That’s really it in a nutshell.
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by tweetdrivr View Post
    DOPS and the officiating (including the Toronto “war room”) in this league are an unprofessional arbitrary unpredictable clown show. They get wrong faaaar more often than they get it right. That’s really it in a nutshell.
    But they are literally the measuring stick of right and wrong when it comes to interpreting these things. Most of the rules involved are subjective, so in most cases their decisions can't really be "wrong". What you're really saying is that your opinion is different than theirs and that yours is better. They remain opinions, but their opinions have weight and yours don't (expect here).

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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    No call during the game.
    Follow up from the league after the game: "Legal hits."

    So the officials were wrong. And the league reviewed it afterwards and agreed with the non-calls. So the league is wrong too. And I'm wrong too. And whoever agrees with my position - also wrong.

    Maybe. Certainly possible.
    Scotty Upshall: "From this angle, it’s clear as day [Matthew Tkachuk] has ABSOLUTELY ZERO intention of making a hockey play. Again, for those of u who haven’t played at any level, other than Xbox, our new NHL states u must acknowledge there’s a puck on the ice at some point (I had no idea most nights either!)"

    Teamu Selanne: "And Kassian will face @NHL hearing for protecting himself from this 2 dangerous hits...@GeorgeParros not right..."

    Ray Ferraro: "
    On Tkachuk hits v Kassian. I’m serious here. Aren’t these the same hits Raffi Torres used to throw that the league eventually said were penalties? Any hit from above goal line to player coming from below. #thenandnow"

    There are more, a lot more. It's not just the people on this forum.

    Yes, you and the league got it wrong. The officials missed it and also got it wrong (it's a tough job).


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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by forumname View Post
    But they are literally the measuring stick of right and wrong when it comes to interpreting these things. Most of the rules involved are subjective, so in most cases their decisions can't really be "wrong". What you're really saying is that your opinion is different than theirs and that yours is better. They remain opinions, but their opinions have weight and yours don't (expect here).
    I can’t help it if I’m smarter and understand the game better than they do. That’s what so puzzling and frustrating. My opinion is better. They are wrong more often than not. Go back and review every goaltender interference challenge this year and tell me I’m wrong.
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by MZac View Post
    Scotty Upshall: "From this angle, it’s clear as day [Matthew Tkachuk] has ABSOLUTELY ZERO intention of making a hockey play. Again, for those of u who haven’t played at any level, other than Xbox, our new NHL states u must acknowledge there’s a puck on the ice at some point (I had no idea most nights either!)"

    Teamu Selanne: "And Kassian will face @NHL hearing for protecting himself from this 2 dangerous hits...@GeorgeParros not right..."

    Ray Ferraro: "
    On Tkachuk hits v Kassian. I’m serious here. Aren’t these the same hits Raffi Torres used to throw that the league eventually said were penalties? Any hit from above goal line to player coming from below. #thenandnow"

    There are more, a lot more. It's not just the people on this forum.

    Yes, you and the league got it wrong. The officials missed it and also got it wrong (it's a tough job).


    Most of the examples you cited are former players or analysts who believe the hits should be illegal. "Should be" illegal - maybe. Currently illegal - no. Hence, the non-calls and no subsequent action from the league on Tkachuk.

    For the record, all hits are dangerous. You want to start making that the criteria? Dangerous? Ok, take hitting out of the game. Problem solved.

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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by chuckcouples View Post
    Let's compare this season stats to see how this argument holds up:

    According to NHL.com, Matt Tkachuk is 6'2, 202lbs while Zack Kassian is 6'3, 211lbs.

    They are in the same weight class.

    Tkachuk plays 18:10 per game but that includes almost 3 minutes per game on the NHL's 12th worst PP. He plays 0 seconds per game short-handed. This gives him 15:12 per game of even strength ice time.
    Kassian plays 16:15 per game but has only played 26 seconds per game on the PP and 2 seconds per game short-handed. This means he gets 15:48 per game of even strength ice time. This is 3rd among all Oilers' forwards.

    Both Tkachuk and Kassian are first line forwards.

    Tkachuk has 38 points this season including 12 on the PP which gives him 26 even strength points. Kassian has 28 even strength points. Yep...Kassian has more goals, more assists and more points than Tkachuk does at even strength this season. The Oilers are not going to change their PP lines since they have the best powerplay in the entire NHL.
    Let's not get carried away here. Kassian is a 1st liner out of necessity because the Oilers have about as much depth as a puddle. He'd be lucky to warm a bench on most teams. How are his stats without McDavid?
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by tweetdrivr View Post
    I can’t help it if I’m smarter and understand the game better than they do. That’s what so puzzling and frustrating. My opinion is better. They are wrong more often than not. Go back and review every goaltender interference challenge this year and tell me I’m wrong.
    But the rules are not black and white - they are open to interpretation. It's more likely that you are simply interpreting the rules differently than they are.

    For example: Rule 48.1: Illegal Check to the Head: A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.

    How do you define "main point of contact?" or "avoidable"? What the **** does "main point of contact" mean? Unless we have some kind of spatial mapping to determine contact areas accurately (ie. 23 square inches of head contact and only 16 square inches of other bodily contact), how do you possible interpret this?

    You can't define these in black and white terms, and ultimately THEY get to decide. All we can ask for is consistency, but even that is difficult to achieve with the way the rules are structured and with every case being unique in many ways.

    This is not a case of you being right and them being wrong.

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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Most of the examples you cited are former players or analysts who believe the hits should be illegal. "Should be" illegal - maybe. Currently illegal - no. Hence, the non-calls and no subsequent action from the league on Tkachuk.

    For the record, all hits are dangerous. You want to start making that the criteria? Dangerous? Ok, take hitting out of the game. Problem solved.
    All of the examples I cited are from former players and Ray has turned into quite the analyst. They clearly don't want it in the game and Ferarro points out that the league said former hits like this were penalties. So which is it? A penalty or not? It was a penalty before and now it isn't? I guarantee you there will be a similar hit eventually that will be called a penalty.

    Putting on skates is dangerous. No one is saying take hitting out of the game, except you just now. This stuff sells and I'm going to watch their next game because of what happened. Even Kassian says he likes it and wants the game to be played that way.

    I believe what the quotes above are saying is to take predatory hits that aren't hockey plays out of the game, or at least penalize them. Maybe head shots? Maybe leaving your feet to follow through on a hit? Taking 3.5 strides to crush a guy below the goal line then have so much momentum that you take out your teammate that was covering him on the rebound hit? Ya, that has been a penalty in the past and should have been one there. No one got hurt on the play so does it warrant a suspension after the fact? I personally say no it doesn't. The league never likes to throw the refs under the bus and rightfully so, it legitimately is a really hard job.

    At the end of the day I don't even have an issue with how everything went down. Go ahead and hit like that, go ahead and get rag dolled (don't be shocked when it happens), the suspension? Sure it all makes sense.

    To pretend like Tkatchuk is an innocent victim here is a bit absurd. To look at that hit in 2020 and pretend like there's no issue with it because the ref's didn't call anything at the time (they've never missed a call before right?), is a bit absurd.
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by MZac View Post
    To pretend like Tkatchuk is an innocent victim here is a bit absurd.
    I don't think anybody is saying that either.

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    Quote Originally Posted by Auston'sWilly View Post
    Tkachuk didn't break any rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by forumname View Post
    I don't think anybody is saying that either.
    The first quote is what I was responding to and disagree with.
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  13. #73
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    Default Re: Kassian v. M. Tkachuk

    They were targeted hits. For sure. Illegal? Up to your personal interpretation of the rules. Refs thought they were fine. DOPS thought they were fine. Some here, as well as others who have been around and played the game obviously feel at least one or more of Tkachuk's hits on Kassian that night were illegal. You can find half a dozen or more borderline illegal hits a game if you want to overanalyze it. Some are called penalties. Most are not.

    My two cents? Kassian was fine dropping the gloves. He had been hurt and was lashing out in anger. Simple human emotion. Tkachuk, in my opinion, should have dropped his gloves too and scrapped it out. He was stirring the pot, poking the bear and should have expected a retaliation at some point. However, he didn't. Whether a person respects that or no he was not a willing participant. For Kassian to rag doll Tkachuk multiple times and punch him in the back of the head repeatedly, with no reciprocation on Tkachuk's part, was crossing the line.

    A 2 game suspension seems fair.
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