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Thread: How many Goalies is too many?

  1. #1
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    Default How many Goalies is too many?

    League:

    12 team - 20 roster spots (2 goalie starts)

    Keep 9 - Cost 1 round higher then draft spot.

    Goals, Assists, Plus / Minus, Pims, Hits, PPP - Wins, Shutouts, GAA, Save %


    Situation:

    Had Vasilevskiy, Binnington and Price. Just traded a forward for Kuemper.

    Is it dumb of me to ride out 4 goalies for the rest of the year? With goalies accounting for 40% of my cats, having that extra flexibility sounds very intriguing. Price and Vasi have not been great this year, and im in "all in" mode this year. Also thought about trading Vasi as he has great keeper value, but I rode him to a championship last year and am scared to trade him.

    Any input on a possible 4 goalie strat / which goalie to trade would be awesome!

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    4 goalies for entire year? (4cat goalie league, no SV cat):

    Roto: Super-wise.
    H2H: Super-dumb.

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    It is a H2H league, sorry I missed that.

    I was offered Kuemper fairly cheap, so I felt I had to make that trade even if I flip him.

    Out of my current 4 goalies, which one would you try to move? Vasi, Binnington, and Kuemper all have great keeper value, but for me I want the best producing goalies this year.

    Also if it helps, my skaters are extremely stacked. My team is:

    Barkov (K)
    Draisaitl (K)
    Aho (K)
    E. Kane
    Ovechkin
    Marchand
    T. Wilson
    Teravainen (K)
    Mackinnon
    Pastrnak (K)
    Rantanen (K)
    Hedman
    Ristolainen
    J. Carlson (K)
    Burns
    Krug

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Holy crap - your team is stacked. You have arguably the 2 best goalies to have this year - at least to start the year they were (Vas and Bin). You also have a bunch of top skaters. Arguably you have the 3 best D-men in the league (Burns, Hedman, Carlson) and 5 of the top 10 skaters in the league (OV, MArchand, Pastrnak, MacKinnon, Draisaitl).

    Is is a daily start or weekly start?

    Is this really a 12 team league? I assume you're easily in 1st.

    I would make 0 trades for skaters from here on out.

    I have a feeling this post was a little bit to brag.....

    With all of that said, I agree with Pengwin (as I normally do). Without Saves as a category, throwing more goalies at the problem doesn't make a lot of sense. Shutouts are 100% a crap-shoot. The top goalie will get 8 or so shutouts in the year which across 23 weeks is about 1 every 3 weeks. This means that 1 shutout per week will likely win you the cat for the week and 2 almost always ices it. Even Ws, you might give up 1 goal and lose or give up 5 goals and win so they are a bit of a crap shoot too.

    I think Kuemper is a great pickup. He is almost at the top of the GAA and SV% for the league. You add in his wins, he is probably the top starter in the league for your format.

    I think Hellebuyck is another guy who is probably close to the top of the league in your format. If you want to make another trade, this would be the guy I would target.

    I might also target Rask - he has had great stats this year.

    If this is a redraft league, I would submit trades straight up Vas for Hellebuyck and Price for Rask or vice versa. Depending on your keeper status, I would probably still submit Price for Rask, but would keep Vas
    In a 10 league where we start 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 4D and 2 G daily. It is a H2H league - we keep 3 players (1 G max), are allowed a max of 2 keeps for each player. The number in brackets is the number of keeps I have left:

    G, A, +/-, PIMs, PPG, PPA and Shots.
    C - Larkin, Couturier, Kopitar, Cirelli
    LW - OV, Panarin (1), Schenn (C), Ehlers (RW), Kreider
    RW - Kucherov (0), Seguin (C), Palmieri, Voracek, Yamamoto
    D - Yandle, DeAngelo

    W, GAA, SV% and Saves.
    G - Rask, Varlamov, Hart, Mrazek
    IR+ - Tarasenko

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Honesty not meant as a brag post at all. I was afraid posting my roster would make people think that. Ive had 2 of the last 4 years where ive had stacked teams like this and have been upset 1st round from poor goal tending, with my cats. I want to be able to put myself in the best position possible and with Vasi and Price off to such poor starts for GAA, SV%, its reminding me a lot of my past failures. I am very much "all-in" this year, trading a lot of next years picks so I could add non keepers like Ovi, Marchand, Hedman, Mackinnon. Plus ive had great luck with my young players, spending a rebuilding year or 2 hording top prospects like Rantanen, Pastrnak, Vasi, then got lucky on adds like Binnington and Terevainen before they got hot. So, definitely not meant to brag, just nervous as hell. If I lose this year, I will never hear the end of it.

    I am currently in 1st, but 2-4 are uncomfortably close. Ive lost 2 weeks already this year from poor goal tending.

    While I agree Wins and Shutouts are a crap shoot, where my skater group is so strong, would in not be even the slightest bit reasonable to hang on to the 4th goalie if nothing else, to have more kicks at the can? I cant for the life of me figure out who to ship off. Price would be the one I think I would have to, but his value is by far the lowest as he cant be kept.

    Rask and Hellebuyck are both owned by the teams right behind me, and have already declined trade offers.

    Really appreciate your time!

    Edit - Daily start

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Quote Originally Posted by xtremehabber View Post
    It is a H2H league, sorry I missed that.

    I was offered Kuemper fairly cheap, so I felt I had to make that trade even if I flip him.

    Out of my current 4 goalies, which one would you try to move? Vasi, Binnington, and Kuemper all have great keeper value, but for me I want the best producing goalies this year.

    Also if it helps, my skaters are extremely stacked. My team is:

    Barkov (K)
    Draisaitl (K)
    Aho (K)
    E. Kane
    Ovechkin
    Marchand
    T. Wilson
    Teravainen (K)
    Mackinnon
    Pastrnak (K)
    Rantanen (K)
    Hedman
    Ristolainen
    J. Carlson (K)
    Burns
    Krug
    Jeebus. That's criminal.
    Your collective other-GMs suck. #SorryNotSorry
    Yeah... you can afford to hold 4 goalies because you are not in danger of losing skater cats.
    But usually (per my reply) teams can't afford to be too goalie-heavy in H2H playoffs.

    This is basically a 6/3 cat split.
    6 skater cats
    3 goalie cats
    (SO is going to be 0-0... most weeks).

    To win H2H playoffs, a team needs half-cats: 5/9.
    A dominant skater team that takes: G, A, PPP, HIT... that's four.
    PIM & +/- are kind of crapshoots... but owning E.Kane/Marchand/T.Wilson is usually going to get PIM for you weekly.
    That's FIVE cats... that's all you need and care about.



    This is WHY that I say stocking up on goalies is "dumb" in H2H... because Skater-Cats are the only week-to-week sure thing. Goalies are volatile, week-to-week, even the good ones.
    H2H Playoffs is won by boss skater-groups.
    (Although people often look back on good goalie-stats as helping... but "looking back" doesn't mean shit.)

    You are in good shape.
    When you trade, you just have to be thinking about H2H playoffs.
    I'd move the goalie that you need LEAST in H2H playoffs... and who may also help an opponent the LEAST.
    THAT... is all about scheduling, so you may as well wait for your trade deadline and figure out what teams are headed towards playoffs.

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Quote Originally Posted by xtremehabber View Post
    It is a H2H league, sorry I missed that.

    I was offered Kuemper fairly cheap, so I felt I had to make that trade even if I flip him.

    Out of my current 4 goalies, which one would you try to move? Vasi, Binnington, and Kuemper all have great keeper value, but for me I want the best producing goalies this year.

    Also if it helps, my skaters are extremely stacked. My team is:

    Barkov (K)
    Draisaitl (K)
    Aho (K)
    E. Kane
    Ovechkin
    Marchand
    T. Wilson
    Teravainen (K)
    Mackinnon
    Pastrnak (K)
    Rantanen (K)
    Hedman
    Ristolainen
    J. Carlson (K)
    Burns
    Krug
    What in the actual F(*DK? How do you have that roster? You have SEVEN first round players in a 12-team league (Barkov, Drai, Ovy, Marchand, Pasta, MacKinnon, Burns) That's disgusting!

    I agree that 4 goalies is a lot in a head-to-head league. You should try and get it to 3 and get a skater boost for trading a goalie, which goalie you trade comes down to what skaters are available and what goalie the other team wants. I would look to move Kuemper for a skater (what did you give to get him?) or Price first. I would be open to moving Vasi for a big splash if you can get it, his current production is low but his name value should still be decently high. In short, try and cut it down to 3 goalies.

    If you absolutely cannot make a trade than only because your roster is soo stacked am I ok keeping all 4.
    12 team H-2-H 1 year league, daily roster changes, 3 goalie start minimum/week
    2xC, 2xRW, 2xLW, 4xD, 3xUtil, 2xG, 5 Bench
    G, A, P, PIM, PPP, SHP, GWG, SOG, Hits, W, SV%, GAA, SVs
    C: C. Keller, C. Mittelstadt, B. Nelson, R. Strome,
    LW: K. Connor, B. Tkachuk, J. Gaudreau, J. Marchessault, E. Rodrigues, A. Lafreniere
    RW: K. Fiala, J. Bratt, T. Jeannot V. Arvidsson
    D: R. Josi, J. Trouba, E. Gustafsson,
    G: L. Thompson, F. Gustavsson, V. Vanecek
    NO IR

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    The other thing to add here is that if your bench is deep enough (the OP hasn't shared any information on starting roster vs bench), there can be material value in carrying a 4th starter simply because it'll mean that at least one of your opponents will be one goalie weaker. That can matter.

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Thank you for the reply!

    We have had about 3-4 teams turnover the last 2-3 years consistently, so a lot of the "good" keeper value players went to the top 5-6 teams. We have 3 TRUE rebuilding teams this year (wont beat a top 8 team), about 4-5 middle of the pack teams, 2 super stacked teams and then 2 really really good teams. In our league you can only keep a player max 5 years, so top team are forced to rebuild after a while. For example, next year is my last with Draisaitl.

    I think I am going to hold off until around the deadline before I make any more moves and see where my goalies are at that time. Also, if im losing skating cats at all, I can always flip one.

    Thank you!

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Quote Originally Posted by LawMan View Post
    What in the actual F(*DK? How do you have that roster? You have SEVEN first round players in a 12-team league (Barkov, Drai, Ovy, Marchand, Pasta, MacKinnon, Burns) That's disgusting!

    I agree that 4 goalies is a lot in a head-to-head league. You should try and get it to 3 and get a skater boost for trading a goalie, which goalie you trade comes down to what skaters are available and what goalie the other team wants. I would look to move Kuemper for a skater (what did you give to get him?) or Price first. I would be open to moving Vasi for a big splash if you can get it, his current production is low but his name value should still be decently high. In short, try and cut it down to 3 goalies.

    If you absolutely cannot make a trade than only because your roster is soo stacked am I ok keeping all 4.

    Barkov, Drai, Pasta and Burns were all keepers from previous years. Mac was also a keeper but cost me a 4th to keep. Ovi and Marchand were the only ones you listed that I actually drafted and it cost me a decent bit to get the second pick in the first round. I got Kuemper pretty cheap (Kassian), so I wouldnt mind flipping him if the deal was right. If Vasi doesnt pick it up soon, I may look into dealing him to a semi-rebuilding team.

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Quote Originally Posted by fantasyhockeygeek View Post
    The other thing to add here is that if your bench is deep enough (the OP hasn't shared any information on starting roster vs bench), there can be material value in carrying a 4th starter simply because it'll mean that at least one of your opponents will be one goalie weaker. That can matter.
    5 bench spots. I start 15:
    x3 C
    x3 LW
    x3 RW
    x4 D
    x2 G

    1 NA, 1 IR, 1 IR+

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    Quote Originally Posted by xtremehabber View Post
    Honesty not meant as a brag post at all. I was afraid posting my roster would make people think that. Ive had 2 of the last 4 years where ive had stacked teams like this and have been upset 1st round from poor goal tending, with my cats. I want to be able to put myself in the best position possible and with Vasi and Price off to such poor starts for GAA, SV%, its reminding me a lot of my past failures. I am very much "all-in" this year, trading a lot of next years picks so I could add non keepers like Ovi, Marchand, Hedman, Mackinnon. Plus ive had great luck with my young players, spending a rebuilding year or 2 hording top prospects like Rantanen, Pastrnak, Vasi, then got lucky on adds like Binnington and Terevainen before they got hot. So, definitely not meant to brag, just nervous as hell. If I lose this year, I will never hear the end of it.

    I am currently in 1st, but 2-4 are uncomfortably close. Ive lost 2 weeks already this year from poor goal tending.

    While I agree Wins and Shutouts are a crap shoot, where my skater group is so strong, would in not be even the slightest bit reasonable to hang on to the 4th goalie if nothing else, to have more kicks at the can? I cant for the life of me figure out who to ship off. Price would be the one I think I would have to, but his value is by far the lowest as he cant be kept.

    Rask and Hellebuyck are both owned by the teams right behind me, and have already declined trade offers.

    Really appreciate your time!

    Edit - Daily start
    You make a good point about having such a strong set of skaters, but as you're finding out, 1-2 bad starts can torpedo an entire week of goalie starts if the opponent is close. This is why I want to trade Vas myself. He is too good to sit and yet when I play him and he gives up 5 goals on 21 shots, he kills me. Then I sit him to play Varly and Hart and he lets in 1 goal over 30+ shots.

    I am not sure what is happening in TB, but I have waited 30 games and am not seeing much sign there is going to be a rebound.
    In a 10 league where we start 3C, 3LW, 3RW, 4D and 2 G daily. It is a H2H league - we keep 3 players (1 G max), are allowed a max of 2 keeps for each player. The number in brackets is the number of keeps I have left:

    G, A, +/-, PIMs, PPG, PPA and Shots.
    C - Larkin, Couturier, Kopitar, Cirelli
    LW - OV, Panarin (1), Schenn (C), Ehlers (RW), Kreider
    RW - Kucherov (0), Seguin (C), Palmieri, Voracek, Yamamoto
    D - Yandle, DeAngelo

    W, GAA, SV% and Saves.
    G - Rask, Varlamov, Hart, Mrazek
    IR+ - Tarasenko

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    Default Re: How many Goalies is too many?

    With that loaded skater core, you can carry 4. The issue you have is that the playoffs are likely going to be a meat grinder of stacked teams, or teams that can beat you in a spot you normally would win, maybe HITS/PIM, and then get lucky elsewhere with some scoring cats, and you're done.

    I'd look to see what big HIT/PIM guys are out there that may fit your playoff schedule, and take note of them. Late before the trade deadline, you might make a 2 for 1 move to free up a spot, and grab one to help stop that option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevegamer View Post
    With'tnthat loaded skater core, you can carry 4. The issue you have is that the playoffs are likely going to be a meat grinder of stacked teams, or teams that can beat you in a spot you normally would win, maybe HITS/PIM, and then get lucky elsewhere with some scoring cats, and you're done.

    I'd look to see what big HIT/PIM guys are out there that may fit your playoff schedule, and take note of them. Late before the trade deadline, you might make a 2 for 1 move to free up a spot, and grab one to help stop that option.

    I hadn't considered games played in the playoffs. I can target a couple specific players for later in the season and make a swap or 2 if trends point towards me needed them. Guys who will play 4 games in the given week. The guy in second place who I would face in the finals, given standings stay the same is very strong in hits, while the guy in 3rd (potential semis) is strong in net. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonybeaty View Post
    You make a good point about having such a strong set of skaters, but as you're finding out, 1-2 bad starts can torpedo an entire week of goalie starts if the opponent is close. This is why I want to trade Vas myself. He is too good to sit and yet when I play him and he gives up 5 goals on 21 shots, he kills me. Then I sit him to play Varly and Hart and he lets in 1 goal over 30+ shots.

    I am not sure what is happening in TB, but I have waited 30 games and am not seeing much sign there is going to be a rebound.

    That is what's making me so nervous with Vasi. When does a cold start turn into a lost season. A strong start tonight would make 3 of 4 being very good. So here hoping.

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