Marc Crawford on leave after recent allegations

[Auston'sWilly]

It is sad to me that we need to explain the difference between getting hit by a high stick in game, and a coach kicking you.

It is also sad to me that several people in this thread have downplayed and defended the act of choking a player on the grounds that it probably isn't as sinister as it sounds.

Rylant

I'm sorry that you're sad, Rylant.
Here are pictures of 17 puppies to cheer you up. https://www.buzzfeed.com/kaelintully...-just-a-little

[Auston'sWilly]

For anyone with an Athletic subscription, there is a terrific article about Robin Lehner and his take on "cancel culture."
He believes second chances and rehabilitation are society's way forward. Not zero tolerance.
https://theathletic.com/1433063/2019...urce=twittered

[PenguinHunter]

Thank you. I don't understand how people wouldn't understand the metaphor.

I think those that don't understand it... actually do understand it and are just choosing to just look at some of the trees and not the full forest.

So it is a punishment. Glad we cleared that up.

There's also the chance that a player can get benched, sent to the minors, traded, waived, etc. if they take too many high sticking penalties. So even more punishment.

The point remains that doing something on the ice (high-sticking, fighting, etc.) comes with a punishment of some type, no matter what degree of severity it may be. It's not unreasonable to expect a level of punishment for a coach kicking, hitting, chocking a player.

Was I also able to clear up the comparison for you? That is what I was setting out to help with!

[Rylant]

I'm sorry that you're sad, Rylant.
Here are pictures of 17 puppies to cheer you up. https://www.buzzfeed.com/kaelintully...-just-a-little

I will get over it. Thanks for the pictures of the puppies, even if it is submitted with the intent of mocking me.

Rylant

[Canucks_fan18]

I download all the hockey central at noon podcasts and I am behind so I just finished Mondays and it should be required listening for a lot of people on these forums. Anthony Stewart goes into depth about how what we have heard so far is just the tip of an iceberg from what he has seen with coaches. Than he basically says its not all that bad and this isn't house league hockey. Marek (who I feel is a big SJW) keeps trying to bait him by asking would you like to say anything to any past coaches that have wronged you and he goes on to say no, none of this stuff bugs me in my day to day life, I was raised to be stronger that. He goes on to talk about playing in Russia and what those players goes through and says it's not even in the same world.

Love it! He's been great this entire witch hunt of coaches. Even through the Akim thing, he told the truth and said he never experienced any racism throughout his career. There are people that would of joined the mob in a heartbeat and I am glad he was brave enough to to be honest despite what I am sure many of his peers and fans would of wanted him to say.

[Rylant]

I download all the hockey central at noon podcasts and I am behind so I just finished Mondays and it should be required listening for a lot of people on these forums. Anthony Stewart goes into depth about how what we have heard so far is just the tip of an iceberg from what he has seen with coaches. Than he basically says its not all that bad and this isn't house league hockey. Marek (who I feel is a big SJW) keeps trying to bait him by asking would you like to say anything to any past coaches that have wronged you and he goes on to say no, none of this stuff bugs me in my day to day life, I was raised to be stronger that. He goes on to talk about playing in Russia and what those players goes through and says it's not even in the same world.

Love it! He's been great this entire witch hunt of coaches. Even through the Akim thing, he told the truth and said he never experienced any racism throughout his career. There are people that would of joined the mob in a heartbeat and I am glad he was brave enough to to be honest despite what I am sure many of his peers and fans would of wanted him to say.

It’s an interesting way to look at things. You certainly don’t come across as being open-minded about the process when you insist that it’s a witch hunt; it appears as though you have already made up your mind. By applauding his honesty more than once (which of course, you can’t be certain of), you seem to imply that those on the other side are being dishonest.

I certainly respect and would listen to what Stewart would have to say. He has always struck me as a hard nosed player who might appreciate that rough style of coaching that some feel may go too far. However, interviewing a black person who says that they never experienced this kind of racism is not a testament that these things did not happen. You could put any one of 6 billion people on the stand in Jeffery Dahmer’s defense who could testify “well, he didn’t murder and eat me”; it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen to others...

Rylant

[tweetdrivr]

The Dahmer defense. Right up there with the twinkie and Chewbaca defenses...

[Canucks_fan18]

It’s an interesting way to look at things. You certainly don’t come across as being open-minded about the process when you insist that it’s a witch hunt; it appears as though you have already made up your mind. By applauding his honesty more than once (which of course, you can’t be certain of), you seem to imply that those on the other side are being dishonest.

I certainly respect and would listen to what Stewart would have to say. He has always struck me as a hard nosed player who might appreciate that rough style of coaching that some feel may go too far. However, interviewing a black person who says that they never experienced this kind of racism is not a testament that these things did not happen. You could put any one of 6 billion people on the stand in Jeffery Dahmer’s defense who could testify “well, he didn’t murder and eat me”; it doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen to others...

Rylant

I liked how he talked about being mentally tough and resilient more than anything. My whole point throughout the Don Cherry, Peters and Crawford drama, is that people nowadays are being taught to not be able to handle any adversity. In all three of these cases, nothing was really any major hardship when you put it in context. All three things were wrong but the reaction from society has been embarrassing IMO. Here is how I would of handled each situation:

Don Cherry- You will have to apologize for the choose of words and clarify what you meant. If you don't we will have to remove you from coaches corner. This is kind of how it played out anyway but people made him out to be a monster.

Bill Peters- The incident happened 10 years ago for a different team/employer. Apologize publicly for your remarks, express how you have changed as a person over the last decade. The organization updates their code of conduct and makes Peters take sensitivity training. All this is made public. He keeps his job (might not anyway because the Flames were on skid) and society moves on.

Crawford- Given the chance to publicly tell his side of story and apologize. Move on.

The coverage all of this has gotten in the media makes it seems like a new war has broken out in our country. Its ridiculous and the loudest voices are usually the ones who aren't even the victims.

[PenguinHunter]

The coverage all of this has gotten in the media makes it seems like a new war has broken out in our country. Its ridiculous and the loudest voices are usually the ones who aren't even the victims.

Yup... and with the Bill Peters firing... they couldn't just be happy that they got what they wanted... they had to complain that it didn't happen fast enough.

Not saying that he should or shouldn't have been fired.... but I am saying that the people that called for the firing should just be happy that he got fired and stop complaining that it didn't happen fast enough.

[ericdaoust]

Yup... and with the Bill Peters firing... they couldn't just be happy that they got what they wanted... they had to complain that it didn't happen fast enough.

Not saying that he should or shouldn't have been fired.... but I am saying that the people that called for the firing should just be happy that he got fired and stop complaining that it didn't happen fast enough.

You're putting everyone under the same "they" which is wrong. Of course there's unreasonable people out there. There's unreasonable people of all beliefs. They exist. Let's not turn it into something it isn't. The "witch hunt" is from a subset of people, not everyone.

Personally I just couldn't see Peters going back into the Flames' dressing room after this so I am fine with him being let go. I also don't want to ban him from hockey. He should put in the work starting now to help make hockey a better place at all levels. That's what a reasonable person should do. Hockey has been good to him. He coached a lot of years and made lots of money. The story isn't over yet.

Regarding Crawford... the Hawks have to re-evaluate if he's the right person to be behind their bench. It's too bad teams haven't been choosing more carefully in years past.

[PenguinHunter]

You're putting everyone under the same "they" which is wrong. Of course there's unreasonable people out there. There's unreasonable people of all beliefs. They exist. Let's not turn it into something it isn't. The "witch hunt" is from a subset of people, not everyone.

Personally I just couldn't see Peters going back into the Flames' dressing room after this so I am fine with him being let go. I also don't want to ban him from hockey. He should put in the work starting now to help make hockey a better place at all levels. That's what a reasonable person should do. Hockey has been good to him. He coached a lot of years and made lots of money. The story isn't over yet.

My apologies... I am not an English Language Arts Professor... can you please clarify what pronoun I should have used to describe the group of people that was being unreasonable? I think we can all agree that using 'he' or 'she' would have been wrong because it wasn't just one individual and I don't know personally if they are guys or girls complaining... so my pea brain level of grammar assumed that they was the proper term.

[ericdaoust]

My apologies... I am not an English Language Arts Professor... can you please clarify what pronoun I should have used to describe the group of people that was being unreasonable? I think we can all agree that using 'he' or 'she' would have been wrong because it wasn't just one individual and I don't know personally if they are guys or girls complaining... so my pea brain level of grammar assumed that they was the proper term.

Apology accepted.

[forumname]

My apologies... I am not an English Language Arts Professor... can you please clarify what pronoun I should have used to describe the group of people that was being unreasonable? I think we can all agree that using 'he' or 'she' would have been wrong because it wasn't just one individual and I don't know personally if they are guys or girls complaining... so my pea brain level of grammar assumed that they was the proper term.

Well for starters, who are "they"? You've set yourself up as the enemy of this perceived "they" - so, who is it? Specifically, who? Is it 1 person or 10 or 1000?

[PenguinHunter]

Well for starters, who are "they"? You've set yourself up as the enemy of this perceived "they" - so, who is it? Specifically, who? Is it 1 person or 10 or 1000?

Yup... and with the Bill Peters firing... they couldn't just be happy that they got what they wanted... they had to complain that it didn't happen fast enough.

Not saying that he should or shouldn't have been fired.... but I am saying that the people that called for the firing should just be happy that he got fired and stop complaining that it didn't happen fast enough.

Yup... I am an enemy of everyone that asks for something to be done... whines for something to be done... and then when that something that they wanted done gets done... complains that it didn't happen quick enough. I think it was pretty clear who 'they' was being referred too. I don't know them personally... but what I can tell you is that they appear to be complainers that complain about everything and cannot realize that the world doesn't revolve around them... and that the sun is the centre of the universe.

Its similar to a kid asking for a bike from Santa... but then complaining that Santa didn't bring it on November 25 instead of December 25... its rediculous... the kid still got their bike.

But what can I say... seems like very few parents teach patience or delayed gratification these days. We live in a now...now...now society. And 'they' should be ashamed of complaining that the Calgary Flames took their time and did due dilligence.

What is the world coming to if people complain when they get their desired result but do not get it immediately? A bit pathetic to have wonder this... is it not?

And to put a hockey spin on it... St.Louis Blues fans... you should be up in arms that the Stanley Cup was not won by your hockey team in April and that you had to wait until June!

[forumname]

Its similar to a kid asking for a bike from Santa... but then complaining that Santa didn't bring it on November 25 instead of December 25... its rediculous... the kid still got their bike.

I suppose people on the other side of the argument would say this analogy is wrong. It's more like a kid asking Santa for a bike and not getting it until June. Sure he got the bike, but it's not exactly when it was expected. I have no idea who is whining about the timing on this (which I think is a bit much as it's important to get things right and not just react hastily), but I would suggest you just stop following them?